(→‎Nominations with objections: -moving from here to SS insigna talk page)
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==Nominations with objections==
==Nominations with objections==
===[[SS uniforms and insignia]]===
'''Nomination''' proposed for [[SS uniforms and insignia]]. This article has been painstakingly researched to discuss, describe, and display every [[SS]] insignia and uniform seen in all series of ''Star Trek''. Dark subject matter to be sure, but very comprehensive and worthy of featured article status. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 22:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
:'''Support'''. Good article, I really like the part that all ranks have an image displaying a character wearing the particular rank. Otherwise, a good article that greatly covers the subject in matter. Dark subject or not, this has appeared in Star Trek canon, therefore we wrote an article about it (well, mostly FleetCaptain). and now, some of us think this is a good example of bla bla bla, you know the drill ;-). --[[User: Rom Ulan | Rom Ulan]] 22:57, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
::'''Support''' - Wow, for a uniform article that is meant to be like a list, this is well done! - [[User:Enzo Aquarius|Adm. Enzo Aquarius]]...[[User talk: Enzo Aquarius|I'm listening]] 04:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:::'''Support''' -- I felt bad uploading two or three insignia and then never having time to complete the analysis of the episodes in question, this collaboration has truly come full circle! Cheers! -- [[User:Captainmike|Captain MKB]] 04:58, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::::'''Support'''. I have to say, amazingly done. I especially love how all of the insignia have screenshots showing their use on-screen in addition to the graphic of the actually insignia. Excellent touch. We should be doing that with all of our uniform/rank articles, I think. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup>[[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span>]]</sup> 05:01, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::'''Support'''. What they said :P &ndash; [[User:Cleanse|Cleanse]] 11:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::'''Support'''. The insignia for major could use a better image. Otherwise, outstanding article for all the above reasons. -- [[User:Connor Cabal|Connor Cabal]] 13:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::I am honored by such support from this community. You guys are the best. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, thats true. Trouble is the costume department apparently just made up a "major insignia" by taking the thiner ''Standartenfuhrer'' (Colonel) leaf and streching it out to look like the larger United States Major leaf. By all rights, the guy should have worn four pips, but the viewing audience would have releated more to a major wearing a "major's leaf" which is why they did it that way. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:09, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Guess what! I just redid the Ekos Major insignia per your suggestion. It took some doing, but I made it clean and neat like the other insignia. Good suggestion, it looks much better. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::'''Comment'''. Has this article had a Peer Review? I proposed an article for Featured status some time ago and did not submit it for review first, though I understand that articles for Featured consideration should be. What is the difference between Peer Review and what we have done above? Should there be/has there been a streamling of the procedure? -- [[User:Connor Cabal|Connor Cabal]] 15:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
No peer review was conducted. I didnt see that as a pre-req for the FA nomination but might have missed. Given the support above, can we possibly waive such a requirement? -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 15:07, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::::"Peer review" is not required for an FA nomination, AFAIK. The difference between them is that peer review is used to get help from the community doing final touch ups and perfection of an article, and an FA nomination claims that it is already at that "perfection" (of course there is no such thing) level. If you think that an article is already at that level without a peer review, then as far as I know (or care), nominate it for FA. --[[User:OuroborosCobra|OuroborosCobra]] <sup>[[User Talk:OuroborosCobra|<span style="color:#00FF00;">talk</span>]]</sup> 15:13, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Minor '''oppose''' & Comment. Comment first: Peer Review ''can'' be requested independently of an FA nomination, and in most cases it is a good idea to do so because that moves some of the possible opposition to an earlier step. Without a separate Peer Review proces (which is entirely possible), the FA nomination will inevitably become such process... ;) Which leads me to my opposing vote: There isn't too much textual content in this article, but I already seem to be in an overwhelming minority regarding this. However, if an article consists of mostly images, at least those (and their layout) should be of best possible quality.
:::::::Regarding images, I see some insignia images with dark or transparent background, while others have a relatively ugly white background/border. Some have a thin outline, others a thick one. Some of the insignia are slightly tilted/misaligned. The "Major" collor insignia has serious compression artifacts. It would be great if this could be fixed before this nomination went through. Eventually, I could even be of some help, if time allows on the weekend.
:::::::Regarding layout, it would be nice if the tables would be aligned. We have one 4-column table, then two 3-column table, all with slightly different widths. Maybe the latter two could be combined into another 4-column table, set to the same width as the first one? -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 15:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
To answer your concerns:
# The Major insignia was just fixed and is about as good as its going to get. It matches almost exactly the major insignia worn in {{e|Patterns of Force}} which was itself a hodge-podge of the episode costumer department where they streched a Colonel's leaf and put in one one collar. As stated above, this was becuase a "major" to the U.S. viewing audience should have an oak leaf, so thats what the costumers gave the character. Can I assume that you agree this insignia is now as good as its going to get?
# The enlisted insignia have no borders while the officers do since this was how the SS separated officer and enlisted insignia. That is actually not a mistake.
# I can match the background on all the insignia. That shouldn't be too hard. I don't really see where insignia are misaligned, at least not on my browser.
# Not sure how to fix tables. The German insignia table is intentially separate from the Ekos tables since on Ekos collar patches and shoulde rboards were to completely separate categories whereas the German earth versions had them combined to match (Ekos did not match which is why they are separate)
# The text content is actually, in my view, very comprehensive and covers ever aspect of these insignia. Not sure what else we can add in.
I will fix all the backgrounds. What else would you like to see in order to change your vote? -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 15:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::::'''Support'''. Well done, it looks excellent.--[[User:31dot|31dot]] 00:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Re:Fleet Captain - Regarding the Major insignia, I'm not really sure it is simply a "stretched Colonel's leaf". The shape looks completely different, and actually "stretching" a physically existing insignia would have been out of the question anyway. However, it would probably look a lot nicer if, instead of that "pixel lump", we had an edited version of one of the existing insignia (and, BTW, the Colonel insignia on the linked WP page looks different from ours, what's up with that?).
Nvertheless, what you see on the page is about as good as I could get it with my imaging software. Also, don't see a problem with the Colonel leaf. It matches the leaf worn by McCoy and [[Karr]] for the most part. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::With "tilted/misaligned", I was referring to things like [[:Image:SSColBrds.jpg|this]] - see how the image "hangs" towards the lower right corner?
We will have to deal with specific insginia issues. As for the one above, it was ''very'' hard to find since it is an SS-dress shoulder insignia for the black uniform. I surely hope an objection to the article won't be because its off by a few milli-meters. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Finally, regarding table, I didn't suggest to merge the "German" and "Ekosian" tables, but to merge the two Ekosian tables to create one that looks like the German one. I'm going to move the first Ekosian table to a 4-column layout to help you with that, but am not expert enought to correctly merge the second one into that. -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 12:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that will work since, on Ekos the shoulder insignia and the collar insignia '''do not pair up''' like they do in Germany. I have an idea on how to fix this but it would mean an overhaul of the entire article. But, maybe thats what it needs.
:::::::Adding: '''Image file formats''' - I just corrected one, but then found out that there are several of those... screenshots should be JPG, not PNG. This needs to be corrected. -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 13:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
I will leave that up to you if you can change them over. Issues with the image format shouldn't directly affect whats in the article. If this comes around again to FA status, I hope that won't be the single hangup.
As there appears to be some major issues with the way the page is laid out, and C.H. is now working on removing pictures and changing columns (and I intend a major revamp now as well), best to transfer this to the talk page. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:58, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::As mentioned elsewhere, I started work on the various insignia graphics (at the moment, [[User:Cid_Highwind/SS_insignia|here]], might move that to a subpage of the article talk later). While doing so, I found that in some cases, rank and insignia, or insignia and screenshot, don't really match up - so, in addition to the above "stylistic" concerns, there seem to be factual issues as well. Also, while discussing this with Jörg on IRC yesterday, he found out that there are additional insignia which aren't even mentioned in the article yet, and some costuming issues that would make nice additional background notes (for example, Spock's insignia switching between one and no pip between scenes, Kirk's insignia consisting of differently colored pips in some scenes, etc.). All in all, I'd say it would be best to not continue this FA nomination at the moment, but instead move all this to the talk or a peer review page. I'm going to continue my work on the insignia graphics for the moment... -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 13:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
I think most of the insignia matches, except for the General insignia which is reversed (easy to fix) and ''maybe'' McCoy's Colonel leaf which is a little bit "flater" than the insignia worn by [[Karr]]. In that case, we're talking about it being so minor that its barely noticable. The rest of the insignia, espeically Kirk's Gestapo insignia, are exactly as seen in the episodes.
I noticed those costume goofs as well but kept them out of the article per MA's policies on listing episode goofs in articles. If that's lifted in this case, then by all means I can put it in.
This can be moved ot the talkpage; I'll provide insignia replacements for the questionable ones as time permits into next week and probably the week after that die to my work schedule. Until then. -[[User:FleetCaptain|FleetCaptain]] 14:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Pending a partial move of this discussion, let's continue here for the moment. The question in this case is - where does "episode goof" begin, exactly?
:::::::For example, regarding Kirk's insignia, I imagine the following scene - Head of costuming department to random guy: "''Here, this is supposed to be Shatner's uniform. Attach a shoulder patch here, it needs to have a border, two bars, and three pips across, because we want Shatner to be an SS Hauptmann.''" Random guy takes uniform, and screws up by attaching the pips incorrectly, and in one case even using a gold pip from a shoulder board.
:::::::That would make it a goof, which ended up becoming a canon SS insignia of planet Ekos... ;) Similarly, the current background section of the article ''already'' makes note of shown insignia combinations not matching those of the German SS. It wouldn't make much of a difference to show and explain some others as well... -- [[User:Cid Highwind|Cid Highwind]] 14:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:35, 6 January 2008


Nominations without objections

Return to Raimon

  • It has been awhile since I have done anything with this. I had opened a peer review on this almost 9 months ago, and have only received comments from a now banned user. I've written what I think to be a fairly complete summary, listed canon/non-canon characters, etc., all the jazz that I think makes our non-canon articles good. We even have that fun behind the scenes info on how the cover was created. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment. I'm not sure how to put my finger on it, but, aside from the Summary, the text looks sort of bare-bones and formal. Sort of the difference between a telephone book (what I see here) and a travel brochure (making it interesting to the uninitiated). Particularly in the background, I'd like to see what you observed as worthy of mention. Was there anything unusual as far as the way characters or technology were depicted? Were there thematic similarities to any other episodes? How do we arrive at the date we've established for this story? I'm not a big fan of character sections, but it looks like the standard we have for these sort of pages. If it could be made to look more like what was done with "Ghosts", the only other Featured comic we've had, that would go a long way toward improving the visual appeal of the article. -- Connor Cabal 15:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I'll take a look at the comic again, see what I can do to fix that. I of course was hoping to get comments like this in the peer review, but no one seems to look at those (this isn't directed at you Connor Cabal, and in fact I am just as guilty as everyone on that). I probably won't be able to do anything major until Monday, as my schedule probably won't allow me to be on much until then. --OuroborosCobra talk 16:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Nominations with objections

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