Nominations without objections

  • V'Ger. I worked to expand this article extensively, adding a lot of information, as well as background material. Ottens 17:33, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. I'd like to support this article because it's one of my favorite Trek concepts, but I think it's incomplete right now. There isn't much information regarding its threat to Earth and narrow escape, there's no mention of the fact that V'Ger was not satisfied just getting an answer from the creator but wanted to physically join with the creator and forced this to happen. There's also no indication of Decker's love for Ilia being one of the reasons he joined with V'Ger, and in reference to the size of the construct I particularly like McCoy's assesement that it could hold a crew of tens of thousands, or a crew of thousands 10 miles tall. Also, the content needs to be a little better organized. Specifically, there is some information in "at the heart of V'Ger" that really belongs in the re-programming section and the background info is great but exceedingly long and hard to get through so I think some sub-headers or other separators there would be a big benefit. Logan 5 20:00, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Nominations with objections

Hippocrates Noah

Self-nomination. I figure we need something here, and more importantly a non-episode. He's a solid article and I think he'd do nicely as an FA. --Schrei 07:12, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • Support. --Mike Nobody 08:31, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Neutral. Content-wise this is a complete article that covers the topic without getting boring or turning into an episode summary for the sake of length, it meets all the critera. But I'm biased against single-episode characters like this, so I don't think I can support it (I agree that Brooks should be a Bond villain though). Vedek Dukat 18:30, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Mild oppose. To me this one falls in the mirky area between clearly non-FA worthy characters like Grathon Tolar/Ethan Novakovich and ones like R'Mor. There's a little more back linking with this character, so thats a point in its favor, but even though its "complete" there's no real information here outside of action summary. Logan 5 19:00, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. While I agree with Logan and was the one who nominated Grathon Tolar for removal, it seems to have retained its featured status. I'm not sure about this article, as I don't think I'm experienced enough with MA and the like to judge it, but I do think that it should be possible to have a well-written and comprehensive aritlce without automatically featuring it. Makon 19:41, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. I'd rather see something like Ishka featured than this, if you're looking for something to spruce up. Vedek Dukat 02:57, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Support; I feel this falls well within the criteria of being well written and comprehensive of the subject matter to qualify as a Featured Article. I really liked this character, and I'm glad to see him 'done up' really well. — THOR =/\= 15:17, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. Aren't the featured articles supposed to be the creme de la creme? I don't think complete, comprehensive, and well written should be the standard for just featured articles but all of Memory Alpha. Minor ones like this that meet those criteria, I would mark it on my checklist and move on, not feature it. Weyoun 02:01, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

*Mild oppose. It is an extremely well-written article. However, it has the same problem that caused Ethan Novakovich to have its FA status removed -- namely, there just isn't enough information to the character for us to cover, having appeared in only one episode. However, unlike Novakovich, this has a quotes and background section to supplement the main text, and I believe it covers the character a bit more. I'm just not sure if that can be enough for it to earn FA status. (Of course, I may change my mind later, so stay tuned. :P) --From Andoria with Love 23:00, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

    • What's the difference then between these and Grathon? I'm not voicing an opinion; I'm genuinely confused about the whole featured thing right now. Weyoun 23:33, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Different time, different people voting, different point of view. Personaly, I support this, it's my opinion that an article that is any more than a couple of paragraphs should be up for being featured once it is complete. Jaf 23:41, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)Jaf
    • That's definitely not the way to go, because by your logic I could make almost anything into a featured article. Wikipedia's ratio is 1 in 1000 for FAs, so ours shouldn't be 1 in 5. But this isn't the place to discuss policy. :-) Sorry. Weyoun 23:44, 26 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Clearly located at the top of this page one finds: "A featured article is an especially well-written, informative, and comprehensive article that covers all available information on a subject" (and accurate). As Thor noted, this article, by far, fits into that criteria. As noted dozens of times before, LENGTH has nothing to do with the limitations of what can and can not be featured. Rather than being biased when reviewing this article and saying to yourself (or posting here) "well this is a short article" or "this character only appeared once", what one should ask themselves when reviewing are all points covered in how to write the perfect article. Using this article as an example the following questions can be asked:

  1. "Is the article's subject clearly defined?" In the case of this article, that would be essentially asking, "does the article clearly define who Hippocrates Noah is?" The answer would be "yes," this information is directly addressed in the articles introductory paragraph, and expanded upon throughout the rest of the article, both in terms of who the character was, with and without the incorporation of Sisko into the characters matrix.
  2. "Does this article use 'simple and unambiguous language'?" Again, that can be interpreted in this article in terms of how Noah was 'brought to life' by Sisko, which is explained in detail, in the second paragraph.
  3. "Length." Although, as I stated above, length has nothing to do with the availability or ability of an article to become "featured" -- what is suggested in this bullet point is mostly in reference to completeness. "Long articles are considered better because they can cover the given topic much more thoroughly." However, "this may not be possible for all articles, of course, because information may not be available for all aspects of the subject." So keeping that in mind, when reviewing this article, you may with to ask, "does this article thoroughly cover all available aspects of the subject?" Although I can not personally vouch for the "thorough" part of that, as I have not viewed the episode in some time to notice if it is complete, what I can say is that considering it contains revealing quotes and a sturdy background section to support the content of the article, it is far more complete than in might be if it ended with "Hippocrates Noah was played by Avery Brooks, who also appeared in his normal role as Commander Sisko."
  4. "Is this article well-documented?" Seeing that he only appeared in one episode and was never mentioned again, that would be a simple "yes", as the page is cited and clearly documented.
  5. "Is this article well-written?" Since this is one of the 3 basic criteria for normal voting process, all of those who voted to 'support' this article must feel it is. I personally feel that a couple paragraphs could be broken up and expanded, this observation, which ties in somewhat with my comment on "thoroughness" are my only qualms with the article.
  6. "Is this article well structured?" Yes, the character is clearly defined in the introduction and is followed with a logical progression of Sisko's transformation into the character and his accomplishments as the character. I cannot say the same about the below article Klingon history, because it is not clearly introduced, and it has a rocky start and conclusion that essentially consist of random, rather than structured, points.
  7. "Does the article contain contributions from many members?" Minor or not, I count 10 individuals contributing to this article. Not that an article with contributions from one or two individuals should be sidelined from being featured, having more contributors does show that others have thoroughly read the article and were able to make changes to it, cosmetic or otherwise.
  8. "Does it inform and entertain the reader?" I believe it does, it's certainly concise, and with the addition of numerous quotes, there is a certain "entertainment" value to it. It also has more than a mere "headshot" of the character, a second image is fit into the page to illustrate the context of the article. On a side not, I am not sure about the choice of the second image in this article-- I think one of Noah holding a gun to Bashirs head might better illustrate who Noah really was.

So for those of you who are not understand how to approach and address the voting process when reviewing articles considered for featured article status, the above highlighted questions should be the number one priority is addressing the aforementioned, outlined criteria of well-written, informative, and comprehensive. --Alan del Beccio 00:14, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)

  • Support. I don't think size should restrict a Featured Article, as long as it's well-written, informative, and entertaining. This isn't being proposed as an Article of the Week. I'd agree that the subject matter is too minor for that. I think Featured Articles should cover the full range of articles, long and short, and on major and minor topics. It should be a Best of Breed type of thing. --9er
  • Support. As stated above, I'm not very familiar with this stuff. I can't not support this, given the criteria and sheer quality. Good job. Also, I added a pic of Noah with the guns, but it somehow looks out of proportion alongside his other pic. Weyoun 02:07, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. I agree, size shouldn't be a factor, and this definetly is well written and informative. To Weyoun: I resized the pic you added to 200px, instead of 250. I think that was why it looked out of porportion.--Starchild 02:38, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
    • I actually meant because mine is a full shot of him and the upper half of his body, whereas the first is a head shot. I did the resizing later; I think 200px makes it look even enough though. Weyoun 02:42, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)
      • Hmm I thought it looked out of porportion because it was kind of stretched compared to the other pictures but I guess I kind of see what you mean now that I look at it more closely.--Starchild 02:53, 30 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I highly suggest those who voted against this make an effort, as per policy, to re-evaluate this article under the above listed outline, which has otherwise been completely ignored. --Alan del Beccio 08:34, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)

  • Having read through the outline of the featured article policies you posted above, I am forced to agree and to change my vote to Support. Your turn, Logan 5. :) --From Andoria with Love 17:40, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • I read Gvsualan's note when he first posted it and wondered whether it was directed at me, being one of only two oppose votes. I re-read my objection just in case I had mentioned the article's length as the reason for my oppose and then had just forgotten that I did, but I was right in remembering I didn't mention length. I did, however, mention a lack of information beyond episode summary which I thought was a clear indication of my reasons for opposing.
But in case there is some misunderstanding as to the basis of my oppose let me try to put it into a formula that matches the policy outlined so that there is no ambiguity that lobbyists can construe as opposing on non-approved grounds. Despite some limited background info there really isn't anything in this character article that can't be gotten from reading an episode summary or hearing a description of such. As a result I find it neither particularly informative nor entertaining and so, based on policy, I still opppose this article's nomination. These are the same reasons I supported the removal of FA status for Ethan Novakovich and Grathon Tolar both of which I find to be informatively lacking despite being complete. Logan 5 19:09, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Perhaps there should be a change in what constitutes a Featured Article...? While the page in question is undoubtedly a good article (and certainly of much higher quality than Grathon Tolar, which for reasons entirely unclear to me is still featured), I don't think that there's simply enough information to make it "the best of the best," as the character only appeared in one episode, and little behind-the-scenes information is thus available besides the standard biography... All with all, I don't think this article should become featured, but per the current rules I cannot find any reason to oppose it. Ottens 19:47, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
The nomination policy is or has been under review for a while without a consensus so far. That said we are left with the current policy to judge this nomination. If you don't find it informative because of a lack of material (which is not the same as opposing for length) I think that definitely falls within the guidelines of the current rules, just a question of whether or not you find its informative nature sufficiently lacking to oppose it. Logan 5 20:04, 7 Nov 2005 (UTC)
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