Memory Alpha talk:Projects/Episode duty roster

For the original conversation(s) about this page, see User talk:Vedek Dukat/Episodes/Archive.

Preliminary feedack

"Improbable Cause" was next on my list to tackle. I should be getting to it in the next several days. First I set out to complete the summaries of the 6-ep arc that started off season 6. And now it is done. I was shocked, shocked, to find that some of them weren't done or barely begun. I'm also a bit perplexed that several second-parter summaries were done without the first part being touched at all (as with "Improbable Cause"/"The Die is Cast"). Must be the type of people who go for the desert in their Swanson's first! --9er 09:12, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I took the liberty of adding seasons 4 and 5. There are some really great episodes in there. I only included eps with no summary at all. Plenty of others have just a graf. --9er 10:44, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

On that same note, I'll take care of The Forsaken. I haven't seen that in a long time, and for being a Lwaxana Troi episode, it was really moving. This was a good idea, Vedek. :-) Weyoun 18:36, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Finished the list of empty summaries, but added The Siege of AR-558 because it deserves attention. Weyoun 18:50, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Wow! I'm glad this didn't go over like a lead balloon, which is what I was afraid would happen (Plan B in the intro). Thanks for your help guys. --Vedek Dukat (Talk) 22:25, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Vedek: I'm glad you did this. I knew there were a lot of ep pages without even basic summaries, but until you added this page, and I started going through each ep, I had no idea how lacking this site is. It adds up to a lot of work to be done. Speaking of which, I'm done adding new listings for now. I don't quite have what it takes to look up every Voyager episode. :) --9er 04:49, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Most of the Voyager episodes are VERY lacking. I've already done 12 of them, but there are loads more to do, especially the ones from the earlier seasons. I'm so glad someone else has highlighted the need here! Zsingaya ^Talk 08:48, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I would like to see the Voyager episodes listed here too. Maybe I'll do it tonight when I get home. It's great to see a collaborative effort taking place after the disastrous Refit of the Week experiment! Weyoun 15:59, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC) Never mind, it looks like Zsingaya is taking care of it already. That's what I love about Wikis. :-) Weyoun 16:36, 14 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Well, first of all, I think this is a good idea, although it might be better in conjunction with the template so that your page stays up to date when people work on an episode without knowing about this page. Maybe if the template linked here or something. But it's kind of funny how, despite being all-inclusive now, the actual effort is still centered around DS9. ;) Sloan 06:21, 15 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Duty Roster (from TF)

Well I'm adding this here because not everyone will see it from the recent changes and not everyone knows it exists but please check User talk:Vedek Dukat/Episodes and weigh in on the idea of having Memory Alpha:Duty Roster or something similar on MA for Vedek Dukat's episode listing, which has seen considerable success thus far. Weyoun 02:57, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Maybe it should be something self-explanatory like Memory Alpha:Incomplete episode pages. And first there should be a decision on the mentioned template, both is redundant. --Memory 18:46, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I kind of like the name Duty Roster because it makes sense (at least to Trekker/ies) and doesn't limit the scope, for eventually -- albeit it will take a while -- we'll run out of episodes and have to do something else with the page. However, it might sound cryptic to the casual visitor, so I can understand that point of view too. --Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 18:50, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Links on policy pages?

Moved from User talk:Vedek Dukat/Episodes

I don't like the fact that this page appears on various "official" pages (for example: Memory Alpha:Utilities, {{welcome}}. Not because I don't like the project itself (haven't had the time to follow it), but because I believe that it should be placed on a page in "Memory Alpha:" namespace if it is useful for more than just the few users already working on it. We should probably discuss this and either move this page or remove the links. Opinions? -- Cid Highwind 22:04, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

How about a "this summary needs work" category/template? The list would update itself. -- Rcog 22:47, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I still like this better than the template idea, because that would mean manually adding the template to the pages and it the category page would clump them all together. Whereas here, users can browse by show/season and choose an episode if they're in the mood to watch Trek or something. Making this an official part of MA is a great idea, although it's only as useful as people make it. (Also, it probably looks messy with the episodes stricken out and "complete" added after them; I only requested people do thtat so we could show that this page is useful. If it became official, we could stop that policy.) --Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 22:53, 1 Dec 2005 (UTC)

There is a template for this. --217.186.200.173 00:02, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and it's in use on exactly four episode pages, whereas this page has (almost) every incomplete episode listed already. Weyoun 00:44, 2 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Well... Just in case this gets forgotten, I'd like to say support page move to, say, Memory Alpha:Duty Roster or something similar. Weyoun 02:40, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Definetly support, it seems like just about every user has somehow gotten involved in this one way or another--Starchild 03:58, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I was too busy reverting the Uncyclopedia anime vandal I didn't notice this. Anyway, I (obviously) support the idea. Thanks for getting the word out, Weyoun (but for the record, I think "every user" is an exaggeration :P). --Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 04:24, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to stay neutral on whether to make it official, just because, while I think it's a good idea in the sense of getting people to work together, I don't know how it would fit in as a permanent part of MA. That is, once the episodes are taken care of, what exactly do we do with the page? Someone will come up with something I'm sure, but in the meantime I'm on the fence. Sloan 05:50, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to add my offical support for the Duty Roster. I think its about time this was made official (its already part of the welcome message). Someone mentioned recently that all the easy (ie: interesting) stuff has already been done, and the episode articles really do need the whole community's effort. Well done to Vedek for making such a bold step... its people like you who keep MA from stagnating. Zsingaya ^Talk 10:20, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Support. (When we run out of eps- and it will be a while- we'll find something else.) --9er 11:06, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Comment: I suggest putting the link to this page on the Memory Alpha:Pages needing attention page instead of Memory Alpha: Utilities and putting a link to PNA on the Template:welcome instead (more generic). Besides that, I support the initiative. -- Rcog 22:37, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... while I agree it will be a long time before all the summaries are complete, there is bound to come a time when they will be, and then what will we do? It is a great idea (you go, Vedek!), and we all know these episodes need major work, but I'm not sure whether or not it should become official part of M/A or not. I suppose it could be a temporary part... you know, it's there until it's done, then mission accomplished. Then I guess, what, the page gets deleted? Then again, one might argue that the uncategorized articles page and other pages listing articles that need work will become unneeded sometime in the future, so when considering that, there's not much reason not to make this an official part of M/A. So... sure, I support the "Duty roster" to become official. :) --From Andoria with Love 03:28, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Well put Shran, I think you just verbalized the debate inside the heads of many, Sloan and myself included. ;-) Weyoun 04:25, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest a compromise. Because this one is a) temporary ("until all episode pages are complete"), b) deals with a defined, narrow task ("only episodes, nothing else", which is a good thing of course) and c) is similar but not quite the same as our PNA pages, I have the "vision" of not making this page an official MA project, but instead create a project page listing everything that needs work: one section for stubs, one section for PNAs and (new), one section for specialized user-defined projects where everyone who wants to start a project and be responsible for it can add a link to a subpage of his userspace. This project page could then be linked everywhere where it might make sense... What do you think? -- Cid Highwind 17:11, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

You mean something like "Memory Alpha:User projects"? Ok, that's a good solution. --Memory 21:03, 5 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Yes, something like this - a page consisting of various sections, each giving a short summary of a user project and a link to a subpage in user space with more details. Perhaps with a small set of guidelines; from the top of my head:

• Be responsible. Don't wait for others to keep your project alive. Work on your project page and the defined task yourself. Projects considered inactive after discussion may be removed from this list.
• No plagiarism. Don't copy an existing official or user project. If your project idea is similar to an existing project, work on that one instead.
• Be specific. Don't create tasks that are too big to handle. Try to define one that deals with a small subset of our database instead.
• Quality, not quantity. Don't create dozens of projects at once. Instead, limit yourself to a small number that you really can control.

--Cid Highwind 08:52, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I have some qualms with that idea:]

1. The duty roster can adapt over time and add things other than episodes. This is why I like the idea of calling it a duty roster; it's not limited to one thing, even if it's focusing on episodes for the moment.
2. Let's be honest, there are not enough seriously-involved Archivists to keep more than one or two projects going at a time.
3. People already voted on having the Duty Roster idea, so if we're going to put a vote on here, we will have to make it a vote to choose Duty Roster or User Projects.

So I guess I'll start another voting section. Weyoun 18:43, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I think before we can move User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes to a "Memory Alpha:" page (whatever the title might become), we need some context: who takes care for the list, how might a new task be chosen, who decides if the old task is completed,... I don't want to have a complete policy page describing the function of this page, but there needs to be something. This is why I think that an intermediate page like the suggested "User projects" page is a good idea. The existing episode project can stay as it is without needing any further rules, and we have something regulating the existence of possible similar pages. BTW, how exactly is this voting process below defined? ;) -- Cid Highwind 19:33, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

It's defined by the fact that they put "support" in their previous comments relating to the duty roster. :-P But you're right, and I think there should be some guidelines set, but my problem is that user projects page would essentially give its guidelines and link to Vedek Dukat's page. If someone has a proposal for another project (Shran's performer pages perhaps?) it might work. What I'm saying is there's a limited number of topics (and users) to choose from. Weyoun 19:43, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Well, I already have an idea or two for completely different "user projects" (some maintenance), so its not as if the episode page would forever stay the only project.

Re:"definition of voting process". What I meant is - this complete voting process is ill-defined. How many votes in what time necessary? Process changed after voting started. Implicit votes counted that may or may not be the users' opinion... Why don't we simply continue discussing if there's need to (apparently), instead of this voting? -- Cid Highwind 19:52, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

OkOk, then no more voting. :-p In fact the "supports" from above count for the same, what means that User:Vedek Dukat/Episodes will become a semi-official site - with an official (Memory Alpha:User projects or Memory Alpha:Duty Roster) linking to it. Any objections? --Memory 20:15, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm getting in on this a little late, but from what I can see, having a MA:Duty Roster page with links to the various User Projects (to be hosted on a User page and maintained by that user themselves) seems to be the best sort of thing. The distinction between the Duty Roster and PNAs should be noted on the DR page as being serious, long-term efforts by users to improve particular areas of MA. Whereas PNAs are more one-offs. Anyhoo...that's my two cents. Logan 5 15:09, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)

That's an interesting idea, making "Duty Roster" the projects page and leaving mine a project under its banner. I don't really care one way or another how we handle the current Duty Roster, so long as it becomes "official". --Vedek Dukat ^{Talk | Duty Roster} 23:47, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)

For the record, I prefer the title suggested by Memory: "Memory Alpha:User projects" - not every "user project" will contain a "duty roster", but every user-defined "duty roster" falls under the title "user project". It's all-inclusive :) -- Cid Highwind 23:58, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)

As Memory went ahead and created the user projects page, I moved the Duty roster to an official page since it's been agreed upon. Weyoun 02:03, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

So, why again is the duty roster a "Memory Alpha:" page now if this page clearly states that "user projects" should be created as subpages in the "User:" namespace? This just doesn't make sense - let's move it back, OK? -- Cid Highwind 09:26, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Addition (after merge with discussion from TF): In the whole discussion above, we discussed the options of either moving Dukat's page to the MA namespace or creating another page to collect those projects on user pages. Having both defeats the purpose and just doesn't make sense. Do we still need more discussion about this, or is it OK if Dukat's user projects stays in his user space now? -- Cid Highwind 09:34, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure why Memory went ahead and put this page on the User projects page when it hadn't been agreed to do so, but that's why I moved it to the Memory Alpha: namespace. Sorry about the misunderstanding; I took it off the user projects page. Weyoun 18:23, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Nobody opposed the creation of MA:User projects, so I did it. That logically means that we don't move Vedek's page to MA namespace. (User projects...) --Memory 18:53, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Nobody agreed that it would be a user project rather than official part of MA, either. Please stop trying to implement your way over others'. Weyoun 18:59, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Cid agreed and nobody opposed for one week (!) - I think that's enough. --Memory 19:04, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Since when does two votes constitute a consensus? Additionally, I opposed having the Duty Roster be a "user project" but apparently you didn't listen. Weyoun 19:07, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC)