Talk: Benzar

Location?

"located in Beta Quadrant" based upon what canon information...?– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.204.139.181.

Sign your talk page posts with ~~~~, please. I'm not seeing where it says that in the article. Are you referring to the Benzite system article?--31dot 13:56, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

Alpha Quadrant

In the episode "The Changing Face of Evil",

Rusot stated, "Like everyone else, I rejoiced. We were going to be rulers of the Alpha Quadrant."
Weyoun stated, "That the Federation will be conquered and a new era of peace and prosperity will blanket the Alpha Quadrant." [1]

I checked other episodes, The fight between the Dominion and its allies, and the Federation and its allies was over control of the Alpha Quadrant. The battles were fought in this quadrant. Based on the dialog in the episodes, I have placed Benzar in the Alpha Quadrant. The Beta Quadrant was only mentioned once in "The Sound of Her Voice") - the USS Olympia was sent on a multiyear mission to this quadrant and was returning home when it crash-landed on a planet.Lakenheath72 (talk) 03:34, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Four questions, and I seriously want answers here: What quadrant is Qo'noS located in? Is the Kingon Empire a power involved in the Dominion War? Is it possible that the Klingon Empire is an Alpha Quadrant power in the same way that Russia is a European power? Do you know for a fact that the Dominion War was restricted to just one quadrant? - Archduk 3 03:54, April 7, 2015 (UTC)

Question 1 - The Beta Quadrant (Star Trek Into Darkness)
Question 2 & 3 - It is definite. "After today the only real threat to us from the Alpha Quadrant are the Klingons and the Federation." The Die is Cast
Question 4a - Yes. "Believe me, I don't want to die, but I have to do everything I can to prevent the Dominion from conquering the Alpha Quadrant." The Sacrifice of Angels
Question4b - Yes. "The only way to achieve a lasting victory is to demolish their shipyards, their weapon plants, to force them to retreat deeper and deeper into their own territory until our ships can surround their headquarters on Cardassia Prime and they will have no choice but to surrender. I know it won't be easy. I know that we will pay a heavy price for every system we take from them. But in the end, that's the only way to drive the Dominion out of the Alpha Quadrant, and that is a goal we all share. Klingons, Humans and Romulans." Tears of the Prophets

Did I answer your questions, or would you like more examples?Lakenheath72 (talk) 04:12, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

The problem here is you are wrong, specifically with the 4th question, and you can't see it, because if I understand your condition correctly, you take everything literally, and what was said in the episodes isn't formal, it's colloquial. This is from the Beta Quadrant page: "...in dialogue from Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine all three powers and governments in their vicinities have been exclusively referred to as Alpha Quadrant powers. I don't need more examples of them saying things I already know they do, I need you to see that answering yes to 3 means you can't answer yes to 4. We don't take dialog from DS9 or VOY at face value in relation to the "Alpha Quadrant" because we know the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire, all the major players in the Federation Alliance, have at least some territory in the Beta Quadrant, and we know for a fact that the Klingon Empire is a Beta Quadrant power. It's impossible to tell what is actually where when we know things in the Beta Quadrant are referred to as being in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion War did happen in the Alpha Quadrant, we just can't say it only happened in the Alpha Quadrant.

While we're on the subject though, what are the direct references to the Alpha Quadrant for Vulcan, Andor, Andoria, Briar Patch, Betazed, Tellar Prime, Tzenketh, and any others I missed that you have added. Is it stated unequivocally that these planets are located in the Alpha Quadrant, or are the references just things like "this would be bad for the Alpha Quadrant" or similar Dominion War references? - Archduk 3 05:33, April 8, 2015 (UTC)

If I understand what you are saying, you are saying that I lack the capacity of distinguishing between what is formal and informal speech and I am interpretating the data incorrectly because the people are speaking not the language of computers or logic, they are speaking natural language. There is more to language than the words themselves - there is the context. Where is the dialog taking place? Is it taking place in a formal or an informal setting? What is the preponderance of evidence? What are the rules of this project?

It is stated in Memory Alpha:Resource policy, that spoken dialog takes precedence over visual material. In the dialog, it is never stated that the Romulan Star Empire is located in the Beta Quadrant. We can say that the Klingon Empire is based partly in the Beta Quadrant (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country), as Praxis, the moon of Qo'noS, explodes while the USS Excelsior was in the Beta Quadrant. In the same film, Sulu states, "I'm getting underway now. We're now in Alpha Quadrant. The chances of our reaching the conference in time are slim." He is referring to the conference at Khitomer, which is located near the Romulan border. The only source that connected the Romulan Star Empire to the Beta Quadrant is a map that allegedly appeared in Star Trek: Insurrection and production sources. However, this map is directly contradicted by dialog from "In the Pale Moonlight", and the intent of producers can be overriden by what is spoken on screen.

It is stated in the episode,

"I'd pick the side most likely to leave us in peace when the dust settles. Maybe you're right. Maybe the Dominion will win in the end. Then the Founders will control what we now call Cardassia, the Klingon Empire and the Federation. So, instead of facing three separate opponents with three separate agendas, you'll find yourselves facing the same opponent on every side. There's a word for that. Surrounded." Sisko from "In the Pale Moonlight"

This is supported by

"And with the Cardassian Fourth Order protecting their flank, the Twenty third Jem'Hadar division will begin its thrust across the Glintara Sector. They should begin the invasion of Romulus itself on the following day. Once we've taken the homeworld, organised resistance will crumble when outlying systems and colonies begin looking out for themselves. Consolidation of the entire Empire will take three months at most." "Weyoun" from "In the Pale Moonlight" (Yes, I am aware that this tape was a forgery; however, even forgeries need a basis in reality to be believable.)

In the same episode, it is stated that the Jem'Hadar are crossing the Romulan-Cardassian border and attacking Federation assets.

The Dominion enters the Alpha Quadrant from the Gamma Quadrant through the wormhole, sets up a headquarters on Cardassia Prime, and begins spreading outward throughout the Alpha Quadrant. The drive of both the Klingons and the Federation, and later the Romulans, is to push them back to Cardassia Prime and defeat them. The writers made the Dominion War a battle for the Alpha Quadrant.

My intent is to be faithful to the rules of this project. The rules are clear - spoken dialog takes precedence. The battles in the Dominion War are fought in the Alpha Quadrant. The Beta Quadrant is never invaded by the Dominion.

I have been candid, as this is how I have been raised by my mother/father Denise. I believe that candor can be a first step towards reducing misunderstanding and conflict. Yet, I don't appreciate my mental condition being used as a weapon against me. And, that is what I feel has been done here. "Oh, he has this condition. People in this condition don't think like me - they don't have my understanding of the world. So, I can play a game with him, trick him into confirming what I believe about him, and then dismiss what he is saying." I am enraged by what you have done, and I will not give the courtesy of answering any further questions. I am taking a break from this project.Lakenheath72 (talk) 14:58, April 8, 2015 (UTC)