Talk: Betazoid

Reference needed

Females are considered to be the stronger sex on Betazed; males are seen less intelligent or even significant. Females get all the families' belongings after the death of a parent, they are subject to reject their mate, and are responsible for the entire administration and government of Betazed.

Is there a canon source for this? -- EtaPiscium 20:15, 22 Sep 2004 (CEST)

Lower-class, caste-system citizen status based on gender, or any other non-meritocratic, unearned method, is not permitted of members by Federation law. (DS9: "Accession"). --ChrisK 07:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

removed sociology

Removed the section titled 'sociology', guessing it was suppose to be society, either way all the information in it could go under culture and Physiology. I have no idea if the info in that part was all canon or not. Signed, Tyrant

No, I don't think that first part is canon. Sounds like speculation.

Also, I don't remember the specific details, but I think it's worth mentioning. In "Half a Life", when Lwaxana was arguing with Timicin, she said something how years ago, on Betazed, women were forced to wear atrocious hats, that had little birds in them, and that it was hurtful to the women and the bird. Until one woman stood up against the tradition. Can this be added somehow by someone who knows more on the subject? AJ Halliwell 1145 29 Mar 2005 (EST)

Amphibious?

Don't know about that. Barkley devolved to a spider because there was SOME common DNA in the Earth evolutionary tree, and Picard devolved to marmoset, but there's no scientific theory stating that we had evolved from these animals only that we shared a common lineage. The same probably applies here.Logan 5 16:17, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

what really i don't remeber picard devolving into a marmoset....i must have been in the bathroom or somthing...wow i'm trippin today! (Megahypernova 19:34, February 7, 2010 (UTC))

Watch the episode again, Data indicated that is what he was going to devolve into. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:52, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

um i meant i never saw it happen...not what data said would happen (Megahypernova 17:49, February 9, 2010 (UTC))

Telepathy

Say, how is telepathy sent over subspace? Someone should look that up. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.245.29.229.

The mechanics of telepathy are not stated as far as I've seen; the energy emissions involved are not described as being standard EM. In fact, there is good evidence in the world of Star Trek most extreme mental powers work at speeds beyond that of light. --JCoyote 05:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

ST:Enterprise

Sigh...my memory is getting faulty. Wasn't there a "one-liner" reference to Betazoids somewhere in ST:ENT? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.92.136.131 .

I don't believe there was a reference to Betazoids in ENT. I could be wrong (after all, I'm trying to recall references from 98 episodes of continuity), but I really don't recall any reference to them and really don't think there was any such reference. --From Andoria with Love 12:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I just finished watching ST:ENT a few weeks ago. I do not recall any mention of Betazoids at all, nor encounters involving them and humans. Just a vote; I could be wrong.

I do recall seeing somewhere in a Wiki a chart detailing which series contained which major species of sentient beings, if that helps at all. Probably here or Wikipedia. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.22.22.101.

that may be because they wern't even known by humans, even when kirk was captain, and that was based a hundred years in the future from enterprise

(Megahypernova)

Telepathic Development

The article seems to imply the strongest telepaths develop there powers in adolescence, but wasn't the whole problem with Tam Elburn the fact that he developed telepathy in early childhood, so he wasn't prepared to block out the emotions of others, and he was the strongest betazoid seen in the series. Is the article confusing, or is it just me? – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jellico (talk • contribs).

dunno it sounds confusing (Megahypernova 19:31, February 7, 2010 (UTC))

Betazoids as genetic augments

ok reading through the section on betazoids it seems to imply that they are not human, only nearly indistinguishable from humans- however there's a ds9 episode where it is learned bashir was genetically modified or w/e by his parents to increase his intelligence etc. this is ofc illigal, and the betazoids are referenced as one of the lucky examples of benevolent genetic experimentation on humans. any of you hardcore trekkies wanna verify or at least check this out? quite an interesting angle to the culture. -- grinin 03:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Betazoid culture has references that predate earth having warp travel. So even if they are humans, from earth, any movement or experimentation on them likely would have been by a third party. Though, to be honest, I do believe the major similarities of betazoids and humans are because of a common origin. Though also, I don't see a reason why betazoids would HAVE to be results of experimentation, evolution has obviously produced forms of telepathy in a wide range of very dissimilar species. So there is no reason why a group of humans wouldn't possibly develop it as well. If I were to write it up as things stand now, I'd say the group selected and pulled from earth to transplant to betazed were selected because they were the first humans to show telepathy on some level; thus the Preservers or whoever selected them specifically to put elsewhere and see how they develop. That'd be a form of selective breeding, but would make sense. But I am not familiar with that reference from DS9. --JCoyote 07:05, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

At no point in that episode are the Betazoids mentioned as being the result of genetic experimentation on Humans! Here is the script. -- Krevaner 07:07, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Krevaner is completely right, there is no mention of them being genetically altered. -- Jaz ^talk 04:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I would have to say that Betazoids are not Human based solely on the Episode of TNG "Genesis" where the crew de-evolves. In it, Troi de-evolves into an Iguana type creature, unlike Riker who de-evolves into a missing link type primate. Doesnt really answer if the Betazoid race are genetically altered, but it might provide insight to what makes them other than human.--Secretalaskaman 06:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Troi de-evolves into an amphibian, not an Iguana. Spot (Data's cat) de-evolves into an Iguana. Regardless, that is unfortunately evidence of little, since Barclay de-evolves into an arachnid, something which does not exist in our ancestry. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 07:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

um the refference is from the ds9 episode where the greatest docttor in the quadrant wants to make a hologram of dr. bashir, but then finds out his parents geneticly altered his inteligence, because he was stupid(Megahypernova 20:40, December 21, 2009 (UTC))

thats atually explanable if you listened he was the first to start de-evolving, secondly giant incects where one of the first land life forms so that again shatters the betazoid-human theiory, keep trying though, but you'll never prove it its impossible, though if this was a romulans are related to vulcans debate i'll believe it but thats my opinion. (Megahypernova 20:40, December 21, 2009 (UTC))

Was there anything cogent in that response? Did you even bother reading what other people wrote? Or the script? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 17:17, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

its actaully bad writing in the script and plot, as there is a pig like creature on q'onos, multiple planets mentioned with slug creatures on it, the realisticness of star trek is very unrealistic, and all huminoid species may have a similar common ancestor, it just may so happen that betazoids had a very similar common ancestor to humans, now i was saying about the realisim of the series's, i know you think its not the real star trek, but its the most realistic, the creatures that chased kirk were totaly unique and realistic, no planet could generate creatures so simalar to each other and thats why i kinda like the new movie better than the others.(Megahypernova 20:24, February 14, 2010 (UTC))

Disease

Why is the Phase listed as a disease. it's the Betazoid equivilent to menopause, and that's certainly not a disease!--Tiberius 00:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Your right. I personally don't see why we have the diseases listed at all, they are described right above that section. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 00:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

If someone here equates 'disease' with 'quadrupling of sex drive', particularly in the case of Marina Sirtis, then I am seriously worried...

Anyway, menopause in humans is certainly not the same as a multiplication of sexual desires and fertility. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.22.22.101.

It is the same in that it is simply another step in the life cycle. Puberty would be the same in this way as well. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 05:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

to bad we never got to see deanna troi expirience this it would have been funny, just like when she got drunk in first contact i defanetly didn't see that one comming (Megahypernova 19:27, February 7, 2010 (UTC))

Honesty/rudeness

Due to their telepathy, Betazoid culture embraces honesty almost to a point considered rude by other cultures. Lwaxana Troi, on numerous occasions, commented on her befuddlement at the Human practice of fibbing to spare others' feelings or for politeness' sake.

This note has gone uncited for 7 months now. I can't remember any statement in canon regarding this, and in fact question its validity. With the If we look at the Betazoids we have seen in canon, Lwaxana Troi is one of the few to behave in such a manner or have that "befuddlement". In fact, with few exceptions, they did not tend to behave almost at all differently from standard humans. If a citation can be found, this note can go back (though it probably should include a note regarding the question of how most Betazoids we saw did not have this problem). --OuroborosCobra ^talk 03:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a citation for this - as I recently watched a TNG episode that says almost exactly that. Unfortunately, I cannot remember which one it was. It was from before season 4, though. Hope that helps. --Icesyckel 03:09, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

From "Haven":

LWAXANA: You've been slack, little one. Allowed your mental powers to rust.

TROI: Only to avoid confusion, mother. Humans constantly think one thing and say another.

LWAXANA: Yes, they do, don't they. Poor dears. Our style of complete honesty frightens them.

TROI: On that subject Mother, there is such a thing as too much honesty with humans.

LWAXANA: If they'd only say what they think instead of hiding it. An entire shipload of such inconsistency could drive one insane.

and from "Dark Page":

TROI: You said that among the Cairn, nothing is hidden. We value honesty, but we don't always share everything we're thinking and feeling.

MAQUES: This is privacy?

TROI: Yes.

--Jörg 09:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

• The ability to read the thoughts and emotions of other species is inconsistent at best. Sometimes they have been able to read the emotions/thoughts of non-corporeal beings such as Nagilum "Where Silence Has Lease" or the energy vortex creature in "Time Squared" or gauge the mental prowess of beings such as Q. Other times they have been totally unable to read corporeal creature's minds, such as Ferengi and Changelings.

This is really nitpicking. Could be written differently but the opening sentence is very un-encyclopedic. — Morder 05:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

if this was the case deanna troi would be a b*tch to everyone, so thats basicly it isn't it case closed (Megahypernova 19:24, February 7, 2010 (UTC))

Half Betazoids and telepathy

"All full Betazoids are unable to read the thoughts of Ferengi, Breen, Ullians, or Dopterians, but some half-Betazoids have been occasionally successful in sensing the emotions of some of these species."

Are we sure this is because they were half Betazoids, or could this just be bad inconsistent writing? I always thought the latter. How would being half of a telepathic species help someone more than being a full member? Unless, of course the other species was also a telepathic race. Vortaborg 01:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, it would help to have some references to where the Half-Betazoids read the above species, the only half betzoid I know of is Troi. Vortaborg 05:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

mabye its possible that Human gene's that mixed with betazoid amplified telepathy, however unlikely it is we can't ignore it...(Megahypernova 20:17, February 14, 2010 (UTC))

Yes, we can, easily, because there is no evidence to support it what so ever. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 19:16, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Warp Capability Date

i just checked the betazoid info page on memory beta and alpha and it doesn't metion when betazoids became warp-capable can anyone tell me i'm dying to know (Megahypernova 20:45, December 21, 2009 (UTC))

That's probably a hint that we don't know. Warp capability date isn't stated for most species. Why are you so interested in this one? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 05:24, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

betazoids are my favorite trek spicies mostly because of marina sirtis but the whole telapath thing is cool to. so thats why i'd like to know.. (Megahypernova 14:53, December 22, 2009 (UTC))

is there even a non-canon source about this? (Megahypernova 20:15, February 14, 2010 (UTC))

According to the book Star Trek Star Charts by Geoffrey Mandel, Betazed became warp-capable in "Antiquity," (see the article here). However, other species are listed the same way; such as: Trill, Ferenginar, Son'a, Founder Homeworld, Talax, Sikaris, Malon Prime & the Vaadwaur. Photo gamer 14:55, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

What's with Ferengi?

um i don't get it how does a race like ferenggies repel betazoid telepacy, it don't make sense. i mean i would make sense if someone atcaully said how there phisioligy was explaned better. then again i don't watch trek as if i'm obsessed about it, i mean i'm only a teenager, i mean i can't be obsessed i don't like t.o.s, or enterprise i just think it would be nice to now (Megahypernova 15:23, December 22, 2009 (UTC))

What does this have to do with improving or changing the article, which is what posts on talk pages are supposed to be about?--31dot 15:23, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

why do you have a problem with everything i say man you should be banned, i mean they don't call it talk for nothing..... (Megahypernova)

Please read talk pages. This is not a forum for discussing logic and things in the episodes. There are many Trek related forums for that. These talk pages are for discussions about improving the articles. -- sulfur 16:22, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

whoever re-added this i put this here and it has no significence im deleteing it – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Megahypernova (talk • contribs).

I would also point you to talk pages, since you can't just delete things from talk pages, even if it's your comments, of which not all of these are. - Archduk3 18:20, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

sorry about the other day(Megahypernova 20:14, February 14, 2010 (UTC))

I have seen in some episode before that the reason for Betazoid's inability to read Ferengi's minds are due to how the Ferengi brain is structured... In the Human brain there are two hemispheres with a typical corpus callosum, however in the Ferengi brain there are 4 divisions of the brain. So not really chemistry but rather unusual topology and structure of the brain which defines in this case incompatibility. It's interesting though that there is a race called I believe the Bolians/Tholians or something like that, that are crystal based that have never been mentioned are readable by Betazoids or not.. strange since really its kind of the same case; highly differentiated evolutionary construction. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.93.225.146. 18:20, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

(Per my previous discussions... admins _please revise_ as you see fit to constitute relevant informational content.. thank you!) – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.93.225.146. 18:20, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

Clarification

This article features the line "Additionally, even full Betazoids seemed to be able to psionically influence some of these species". I assume it should be 'even half Betazoids' or just 'full Betazoids'. Not having seen the episodes that may or not feature a part Betazoid psinoically influencing one such species I don't want to change it one way or the other. I'd appreciate someone who does know for sure doing so.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.105.223.16.

Female Betazoid Fertility

Lwaxana Troi became pregnant with a child in 2372, a chronology of Troi's life suggest that she was born around 2309, which means that she was approximately 63 years old. That suggests that female betazoids are fertile to a higher age than female humans. I suggest that this info should be included in the article. --148.136.141.172 12:31, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

First, how are you getting 2309? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 18:36, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Eye color

Why did the Betazoids only have black or brown eyes? Are we to believe there are no Betazoids with blue or green eyes? Harry Groener played Tam Elbrun in Tin Man. Groener has blue eyes, but in the episode, had brown contacts. I was just curious as to why we never saw a blue or green eyed Betazoid.--Jared Paul Baratta 01:05, February 18, 2011 (UTC)

I have seen on almost every episode Luaxana have not only dark but on occasion totally black eyes... This has been rather consistent among all episodes. --– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.93.225.146. 01:05, February 15, 2012 (UTC)

'Telepathic Abilities' confusion

Betazoids felt the emotions of animals, therefore being afraid of getting to much involved in the "passion of the beast" in situation they had to rely on an animal, like when riding a horse. (TNG: "Pen Pals")

Is there someone who is familiar with 'Pen Pals' who can restructure this? It's from the second paragraph of 'Telepathic Abilities'. I'm currently unable to discern what is being said here, and would love to know more about Betazoid/animal communications (most times I recall Betazoids being with non-sentient creatures involved a holodeck).

The Traveler was also not able to be read by Deanna Troi as well.

Also, should this be removed or appended to the previous sentence? Even though it's a wiki, I'm really not a part of this community so I'd hate to change something on my own.

Thanks! --96.47.81.11 10:47, January 11, 2014 (UTC)Kyen

=> Transcript of Pen Pal: PICARD: Sure you don't want to try? It's very relaxing. We can find you something that will be quiet and gentle. TROI: No, I prefer a mode of transportation that doesn't have a mind of its own. PICARD: Strange. I would expect Betazoids to be outstanding animal trainers. TROI: We become too involved in the thoughts and shifting passions of the beast. We lose our way and get swept up in emotion. PICARD: I should think the shifting passions of this beast would be far more terrifying. (He's referring to himself. Just as he puts his foot in the stirrup to mount - ) --46.223.69.233 10:53, January 11, 2014 (UTC)

Zed/Zoid pronunciation

In S3E24, Menage a Troi, Reittan refers to his species as 'BetaZEDS' rather than Betazoids. Is this anomalous or is the word pronounced this way in all instances (or is it maybe something where Betazoids use the former and other species the latter)?

Removed information

I've removed the following statements that have lacked a citation for 5 years. If valid sources can be found, they can be re-added. See MA:CYS.

After becoming a spacefaring civilization, the Betazoids established colonies near their homeplanet.

Betazed had enjoyed a relatively untroubled history for the last few centuries.

The following is more relevant to Betazed, which has such a section. I've moved the apocrypha note there.

This peaceful existence came to a halt in 2374, when the Dominion invaded and occupied the planet. (DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight")

According to the novel The Battle of Betazed, the Betazoids were finally able to drive the Jem'Hadar away by the application of a highly dangerous, offensive form of empathy. There was also a less risky but far more cruel telepathic way of handling the Jem'Hadar, but the Betazoids rejected this solution, since it would have cost them their peaceful culture.

For the below, see Talk:Deltan#Removed info without citations. If a source can be found it can be re-added to both pages:

The Betazoids were inspired by the Deltans from Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Their similarities include the Betazoid species having been named after a letter of the Greek alphabet, the Betazoids' relatively very open attitude toward sexual activities, and the species' ESP (Extra Sensory Perception) capabilities.

--Cleanse ^{( talk )} 02:32, September 30, 2017 (UTC)