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Layout[]

Perhaps this page would benefit from a table? The pics are kinda overwhelming the text. - AJHalliwell 23:37, 21 Sep 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, there's more pictures than text! Its not a bad thing, but it needs to be arranged better. Any ideas? Zsingaya Talk 12:07, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)
I'll remove the Risian and Ba'ku birds and put them on the Risa and Ba'ku planet pages, that should give some more space for the beginning. --Jörg 12:14, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)

<content removed, see entries from approx dates in page history>

What do you think? Zsingaya Talk 12:26, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)
Well, that looks absolutely nice! That way, we can keep the Ba'ku and Risian birds for the moment, and replace the images, should other birds that have no planet page where we could put them, show up. --Jörg 12:48, 24 Sep 2005 (UTC)
Now this conversation has finished, I deleted the images from this talkpage, to save space. Zsingaya Talk 09:04, 1 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Redirect[]

When a user serches "bird," they are imediatly directed to the species. I belive that there should be a refrence to the Bird-of-Prey and Warbird, as well as any other thing with "bird" in it. I wasn't sure, is there a Disembagulation page with all of this stuff, and if there is, shouldn't it be linked to the serch "bird"? – 7th Tactical 05:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. If you want Bird-of-prey, search for that. If you want Warbird, search for that. A "bird", on its own, is just that. --OuroborosCobra talk 05:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with Cobra. Besides "warbird", "Bird-of-Prey", and great bird of the galaxy, all other types of birds should be listed on this page. We could have a see also section for the other three, though. --From Andoria with Love 06:30, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Done. I'm keeping it with just those three, especially keeping Bird-of-Prey and Warbird going to the disambig pages rather to to things like D'deridex-class or the multitudes of other Birds-of-Prey and Warbirds. This keeps the list short, and keeps it from duplicating those disambigs. --OuroborosCobra talk 06:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree. 98.114.153.24 23:07, May 17, 2020 (UTC)

Veronda bird[]

You missed the Veronda Bird! And that's all you're getting from me, I just came to make sure it was included. Because it's cute. -- Wandering Bird Fan.

As it is from something that is noncanon, it cannot be in the article. You may wish to place this reference on Memory Beta.--31dot 16:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Bird[]

I don't think this should be a redirect page. Avian should be separate. Bird should be its' own page. There's been multiple references to birds. Ducks, Geese and all kinds of birds. Why not have a page for them?

--Noah Tall 18:33, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

What exactly would a separate avian article consist of? --31dot 01:47, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Been a while since I been back here...well here's the thing. The article for avian should be about creatures that are biologically similar to birds...much like humanoids are similar to Humans. Birds refer to a variety of species from Earth, and any species that is similar to birds from other planets or moons or whatever should be categorized as avian. I may be wrong, but doesn't Avian basically describe birds and "Like-creatures" am I right? If that's the case then couldn't there be two different pages?

--Noah Tall 19:36, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

While I'm not sure that I agree that the term bird only applies to species from Earth, it sounds like you have a point, though I'd like to know what others think. 31dot 19:58, April 10, 2012 (UTC)

Removed speculation[]

I've removed the following speculative note from this page: "The Banea and Ayt may have evolved from avians as well, due to the fact that they had feather-like covering on their heads." --Defiant (talk) 18:39, December 16, 2016 (UTC)

In fairness, the list to which that was an additional note is almost as speculative. -- Capricorn (talk) 08:35, December 18, 2016 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly disagree. --Defiant (talk) 09:04, December 18, 2016 (UTC)

Rename[]

Since Unnamed avians --became--> Unnamed ornithoids, and the term ornithoid was used in relevant context once vs. the term avian only being in the context of Xindi-Avians, along with the fact that we define the study of these creatures as ornithology, it seems it should best to move this to ornithoid and rename the Category:Avians as well. --Alan (talk) 02:11, October 7, 2018 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the word "bird" (already a redirect to "avian") is used more often for (wild) birds in general, whereas ornithoid is a catch-all term for bird-like or bird-type lifeforms, including sentient ones. --LauraCC (talk) 18:18, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
Moving this to bird makes the most sense to me. It's weird that we don't have an article on birds, instead redirecting to a vague and dubious term. Making this into an article on birds will take some work, but almost all of that work will involve applying rigor to an article that urgently needs it. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:10, October 12, 2018 (UTC)

More on that at Talk: Bird. --Alan (talk) 19:58, November 4, 2018 (UTC)

I think "ornithoid" describes a more scientific classification and a lot of the so-called "bird-like" references on the page as well is that early evil Big Bird character from "The Cage", or the these, and doesn't over generalize everything else. Much like "humanoid" does its job. I guess the big question would be, how many pure references to the term "bird" were applied to non-Earth creatures? --Alan (talk) 12:34, November 16, 2018 (UTC)

It may sound more like a scientific classification but that's an empty promise: it was never defined so we're still basically just guessing what lifeforms qualify as an ornithoid and which don't. This is why I tend to prefer solutions like "bird": at least there we're honest, we're not pretending to know the actual technical definition of a precise scientific term. (avian is even worse; does that just mean anything that flies?)
The term bird is occasionally used to refer to bird-like life on other worlds. For example, in Shore Leave scans determined that the planet had no birds. It's not that common, but when a birdlike creature on an alien planet is called for, I think it's usually just been called a bird. -- Capricorn (talk) 20:08, November 19, 2018 (UTC)

Renamed and merged with "ornithoid" and "avifauna". "Avian" is a redirect to "Xindi-Avian", the only true solo usage of the term. --Alan (talk) 20:43, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

Update: this whole discussion, as well as its conclusion, is built in part on the fact that the term "Avian" was never used in-universe, but it since has been, in "An Obol for Charon" (Burnham: "I've cross-referenced what we're calling the Red Angel with all known winged and avian life-forms in the Federation"), and the outcome of the discussion would probably have been different if we already had that datapoint. I've been thinking about how to deal with this and I think we could get away with just turning avian from a redirect to an article, but I wanted to ask for feedback before proceeding with that. Any thoughts? -- Capricorn (talk) 11:41, September 8, 2019 (UTC)
Would have welcomed comment on this, but since there was none, I've gone through with it. -- Capricorn (talk) 20:37, September 17, 2019 (UTC)

PNa[]

Missing references:

--Alan (talk) 20:43, November 27, 2018 (UTC)

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