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First Ship to Have Warp Drive[]
In Star Trek: First Contact, Riker told Zefram Cochrane in 2063, "Doctor, tomorrow morning when they [the Vulcans] detect the warp signature from your ship and realize that Humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, ..." and in TAS: "The Time Trap", Scott said, "the old Bonaventure was the first ship to have warp drive installed." So Cochrane's ship, the Phoenix was the first Human ship to have warp drive (Star Trek: First Contact), and so was the Bonaventure (10281NCC). So how can both be the first? I think a possible explanation, an explanation that also accounts for the Bonaventure (C1-21), is that the Phoenix was refitted multiple times, growing ever larger and becoming more sophisticated, rather like V'ger (although not as drastically), being rechristened the Bonaventure (C1-21) at one point, and finally being re-registered as the Bonaventure (10281NCC). Such a ship would be an example of the Ship of Theseus described by Plutarch, with Scott being on the side of the philosophers for the logical question of things that grow holding that the ship remained the same.
However, in Star Trek: First Contact, while touching the Phoenix in 2063, Picard said that in his boyhood in the 24th century, "I must have seen this ship hundreds of times in the Smithsonian." A possible explanation for the Phoenix being in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum with the Bonaventure (10281NCC) being in the Delta Triangle at the same time in the 23rd and 24th centuries is that the original parts of the Phoenix were reassembled, and the reassembled ship put in the Smithsonian. Such a second ship would be an example of Thomas Hobbes' extension of the Ship of Theseus. --Astrophysicophile (talk) 16:10, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
- The best place to discuss and compare theories like this one might be TrekBBS. The intent of article talk pages are more for improving or organizing the information based on canon in the article, without getting into speculation. - AJ Halliwell (talk) 20:45, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
- Or the phantastic MA phorums.
- Quite frankly, aside from the early 23rd century vibe of the design, the pinstripes are almost identical to those of the Enterprise, heavily implying a Starfleet vessel, with almost the same blurry after thought arrow pennant on the nacelle. Scott's comment could have very well meant the first vessel with modern warp drive or some other fantastical leap in the technology. And Spock's reference to descendants need not be several generations, and quite literally could be their prodigy. --Alan (talk) 01:24, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
AJ Halliwell, your comment is understood.
Alan, your explanation makes sense, and it fits in with the Ship of Theseus explanation: The last refit - with some fantastical leap in technology - could have occurred in the early 23rd century, sometime before the third voyage. --Astrophysicophile (talk) 08:17, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
- Just to add to the above discussion, even though I know this isn't something that can be added to the article; after thinking about this Bonaventure situation for a long time, I have come to the conclusion that the best way to rectify it is to think that this Bonaventure is Bonaventure C1-21, and to just ignore the visual depiction. Beta cannon has long held that Zefram Cochrane made a second ship after Phoenix (which can hardly be called a starship anyway, more of a testbed), which is the ship he disappeared on. That ship would be Bonaventure C1-21. Hunter12396 (talk) 20:25, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
- If you accept Beta canon, then there's an explanation that doesn't involve ignoring the visual depiction. The ebook Where Time Stands Still revisits the Delta Triangle and describes the Bonaventure as "the first Earth vessel equipped with the second generation of Zefram Cochrane's warp drive". It was lost in the early 22nd century. --NetSpiker (talk) 11:23, 13 June 2021 (UTC)