| Past and special-purpose discussions related to this article can be found on the following subpages: |  |
|
For general discussion on this subject, visit the forums at The Trek BBS.
First Ship to Have Warp Drive
In Star Trek: First Contact, Riker told Zefram Cochrane in 2063, "Doctor, tomorrow morning when they [the Vulcans] detect the warp signature from your ship and realize that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, ..." and in TAS: "The Time Trap", Scott said, "the old Bonaventure was the first ship to have warp drive installed." So Cochrane's ship, the Phoenix was the first human ship to have warp drive (Star Trek: First Contact), and so was the Bonaventure (10281NCC). So how can both be the first? I think a possible explanation, an explanation that also accounts for the Bonaventure (C1-21), is that the Phoenix was refitted multiple times, growing ever larger and becoming more sophisticated, rather like V'ger (although not as drastically), being rechristened the Bonaventure (C1-21) at one point, and finally being re-registered as the Bonaventure (10281NCC). Such a ship would be an example of the Ship of Theseus described by Plutarch, with Scott being on the side of the philosophers for the logical question of things that grow holding that the ship remained the same.
However, in Star Trek: First Contact, while touching the Phoenix in 2063, Picard said that in his boyhood in the 24th century, "I must have seen this ship hundreds of times in the Smithsonian." A possible explanation for the Phoenix being in the Smithsonian Institution with the Bonaventure (10281NCC) being in the Delta Triangle at the same time in the 23rd and 24th centuries is that the original parts of the Phoenix were reassembled, and the reassembled ship put in the Smithsonian. Such a second ship would be an example of Thomas Hobbes' extension of the Ship of Theseus. --Astrophysicophile (talk) 16:10, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
- The best place to discuss and compare theories like this one might be TrekBBS. The intent of article talk pages are more for improving or organizing the information based on canon in the article, without getting into speculation. - AJ Halliwell (talk) 20:45, June 15, 2020 (UTC)
- Or the phantastic MA phorums.
- Quite frankly, aside from the early 23rd century vibe of the design, the pinstripes are almost identical to those of the Enterprise, heavily implying a Starfleet vessel, with almost the same blurry after thought arrow pennant on the nacelle. Scott's comment could have very well meant the first vessel with modern warp drive or some other fantastical leap in the technology. And Spock's reference to descendants need not be several generations, and quite literally could be their prodigy. --Alan (talk) 01:24, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
AJ Halliwell, your comment is understood.
Alan, your explanation makes sense, and it fits in with the Ship of Theseus explanation: The last refit - with some fantastical leap in technology - could have occurred in the early 23rd century, sometime before the third voyage. --Astrophysicophile (talk) 08:17, June 16, 2020 (UTC)
