Talk: Hive mind

PNA

Specifically it requires some episode references to make it relevant. --Gvsualan 19:19, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking all that speculation shouldn't be there. At what point does the speculation get to far out? Cause it kinda walks the line a little in some parts here. -AJHalliwell 09:28, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to reduce parts of it, obviously. But as I noted, not sure what this article can include beyond speculation since there are no real canon sources for a 'hive mind' other than to say that the Borg have one. And if that's the case it should be short and sweet without the pnaLogan 5 12:54, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think it would be good if we could round up all the references to "Hive Mind" from Star Trek, and list them. Apart from that, like Logan 5 says, there's not much else to say. Perhaps we could include bits about how Borg react when they are disconnected from the hive mind (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds", "I Borg", "Descent", "The Raven", and perhaps a reference to VOY: "Survival Instinct", where Seven of Nine and three other ex-Borg link up to create a small hive mind. zsingaya 16:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There you are... that should be a bit better! zsingaya 16:56, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

These are good entries, but are they really hive mind entries, or are they better suited for entries on the main Borg page, or the Borg Collective, etc. I guess what I'm getting at is that these things don't tell us anything about the concept of Hive Mind, which is what this page is ostensibly about and part of my original comment above: Should this just be short and sweet and leave it at that?Logan 5 17:03, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't know really... I thought it might be good to have some place where references are made to the hive mind, and what happens to Borg when they're removed from the hive mind. zsingaya 17:09, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I would agree with that. But I think that the question is still whether we have enough references to distinguish between the hive mind and the collective? Without a second species or some other reference all we're really doing here is re-hashing the same things that have been posted on those other pages without any real distinction between them. Logan 5 17:16, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Like I said, I don't really know. There are lots of episodes about the Borg, but only a few that focus on the hive mind. Talking about collective consciousness is what this page should be about, in my opinion. zsingaya 17:28, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We're truly into semantic territory at this point but...collective consciousness is almost entirely theoretical, which was the point of my original note at the top regarding all the speculation. Everything else we've added is still just a re-cap of the other pages I've mentioned, and I'm not convinced they add any firm detail to the nature of collective consciousness. All they discuss is how Borg behave when connected or dis-connected, without illuminating the actual 'hive' or collective consciousness itself. It's the old philosophical question of 'what's it like to be a bat?'. If we're going to have a 'hive mind' entry without any canon exposition on the hive mind, why don't we have an entry on 'Organian mind' or 'Ferengi mind' or 'omniscient mind'? Those are all 'different' minds than Humans but do they need an entry? Just because someone said 'hive mind' on screen we don't really know anything about it, no more than we do what it's like to have four brain hemispheres instead of the Human two, and referencing the episodes where Ferengi's four lobe structure is mentioned doesn't get us any closer.Logan 5 18:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK then. What do we do about it then? zsingaya 19:17, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Honestly, my vote is to preserve the first paragraph and chuck the rest, including the speculation I put there. It's worth an entry to say that the Borg have a hive mind and that it's diffuse with no individuality or central control. But I don't think the rest pertains. But I submit to the will of the collective on this matter.Logan 5 19:24, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think we need an Administrator's help to resolve this. The pna is going to stay, so I think we should leave it as it is, otherwise someone's bound to come across the one paragraph and chuck a stub notice on the end of it and this will all start again! zsingaya 19:27, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Voices

Okay I don't understand a concept about the Hive Mind that really is the biggest problem with the whole concept. Drones Severed from the Collective always complain that they can't hear the voices of the others. However if the collective is truly a single mind then there should only be one voice.

Speculation: The Voices could be the different strains of thought, But you should also note that Borg Drones say "We" and "Us" instead of "Me" and "I", so by voices they could rely mean one Voice. Personally i think it's the Different Strains of Thought that are the "Voices" – Alexlyoko13 21:31, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Hive Mind != Borg

I've edited this article to describe hive minds in general, rather than just repeating information that is already in Borg history or Borg philosophy, since there are hive mind societies which are not Borg.

Along those lines, I'm not sure whether the article should be in the Borg category. While the concept of the hive mind is important to the subject of the Borg, it is also broader than just the Borg. Is there a more appropriate category available? --Jimsmith 22:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Background and theories on the hive mind

There has been much speculation regarding the form and function of the hive mind, due in no small part to the limited ability of an individual consciousness to grasp a concept totally outside its own conception of self. However, to some extent the maxim that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" may offer good guidance. That is, a hive mind is not likely to consist of simply a large number of individual minds grouped together. Instead the hive mind exists on an altogether different level of consciousness wherein the very notion of individuality is as alien to the hive mind as the hive mind itself is to an individual consciousness.

In this sense the Borg notion that the Collective has "evolved" beyond Humanity and other individually-oriented species may be literally true, in the sense of the root meaning of the word evolve, to change or develop difference. Under this notion of a hive mind, the further addition or assimilation of individuals continually exposes the hive mind to new frontiers. The acquisition of this knowledge would eventually lead to the Borg hive mind encompassing all that is known by the individual, while simultaneously existing on a plane beyond the individual. In so much as that state is possible, the Borg would be closer to the "perfection" they seek because the hive mind would then contain first-hand experience of both the hive and individual mind and not be limited to either one.

Lots of speculation and original research there. — Morder (talk) 05:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge

Collective consciousness and hive mind have been used interchangeably with regards to the Borg. –Gvsualan (talk) 02:17, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

And, they are used interchangeably in the real world, too. Support a merger.Memphis77 (talk) 02:59, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree with this. -- UncertainError (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

PNA-incomplete

I've added quite a bit of information, but I think there is room to add more from the following references:

Collective mind

• VOY:
  • "Scorpion, Part II"
  • "Dark Frontier"

Collective consciousness

• TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds"
• TNG: "I Borg"
• Star Trek: First Contact
• VOY: "Unity"

I also think that there needs to be specific detail added regarding the ability of the collective consciousness' ability to repair ships and individuals (ref: "Q Who" and "Unity"). As well as the specifics and nuances of the New Cooperative and the "group mind" established in "Survival Instinct" and "Unity". –Gvsualan (talk) 17:07, 24 January 2022 (UTC)