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D5/D7 debate Edit

I dispute this article's assertion that the Klothos seen in the TAS episode was the same one referred to in the DS9 episode. After all, the TAS version is most definitely a D7 class battlecruiser! Therefore, it seems much more likely that Kor's ship in the TAS episode was named after his earlier ship. Additionally, we don't know when the attack on Caleb IV took place... -- Dan Carlson | Talk 01:10, Sep 11, 2004 (CEST)

In "Treachery..." Kor specifically says: "I commanded the first division from the Klothos -- one of the old D-Five cruisers -- while Kang commanded the second division." The name Klothos was also mentioned in the "Time Trap". Coincidence? I believe Ron Moore even admitted to this coincidence.
In fact:
Q: Was ["Once More Unto the Breach"] where you made a mention to The Animated Series, as you said you were going to do this season? If so, what was it?
A: [Ron Moore said] "Kor mentions the "Klothos" as being his ship during the battle of Caleb V. The Klothos was Kor's ship in the TAS episode "Time Trap.""
I found that interview here
So what does not knowing when the attack on Caleb IV have to do with anything??--FuturamaGuy 17:05, 11 Sep 2004 (CEST)

Yes, I knew all that... but my point is that the ship that appeared in the TAS episode was a D7, not a D5. -- Dan Carlson | Talk 17:05, Sep 11, 2004 (CEST)

Is this arrangement more suitable?
However, I do have one comment to add: The first Klingon ship we see with a cloaking device is Kruges in 2285. And I am not convinced that the TAS Klothos is a D7, as it was called a D5 long before Enterprise change things.--FuturamaGuy 17:39, 11 Sep 2004 (CEST)

Yeah, that's better. :-)

Now, I admit that I'm not an expert on the animated series at all (having only seen one episode), but given their obviously similar appearance (the TAS ship compared to the old TOS model), I think that we should ignore any reference to the TAS-Klothos being a D5. It seems to me that the similar appearance obviates the artists' intention for the designs to be the same. We can make a reference in a footnote on the main article page if that would make you more comfortable, though -- 'cause I know there can be conflicting opinions on this! -- Dan Carlson | Talk 18:19, Sep 11, 2004 (CEST)

I think that it is likely with the occurrence of the ENT series 22nd century D5 cruiser, and Kor's description of having a D5 described as "old" in the mid-23rd century, that it is likely the producers might be suggesting this is a separate vessel from the one in the TAS episode. No one ever stated they were the same ship. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 16:59, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)
I'd say that, in light of everything, we ought to apply Occam's Razor and say that there was only one Klothos commanded by Kor, and that in his confusion in "Once More Unto the Breach" he mis-stated the class of the vessel. His senility and forgetfulness was a key focus of the episode, after all. Interpolating two ships named Klothos is ungainly and unnecessary.

Mike, from reading your above comment it seems that you may have made a minor but potentially significat error. Kor didn't describe the ::: Klothos as old from the point-of-view of the mid-23rd century, but rather from the late-24th century. A D7 (or whatever class the animated cruiser was) would certainly be considered old by that point. The episode in question even implied that the more recent K't'ingas were getting to be old in that timeframe.

On a separate but related issue, the Klingon cruisers seen in the animated series may or may not be D7s. They are quite similar, to be sure, but there are at least two notable differences: the extended casing around the forward weapon emplacement and the protruding tubes on the neck. Though these could be upgrades and not necessarily indicative of a different class, for all we know these ships are D8s or something else. I would hesitate to just call them D7s.--The Mighty Monkey Of Mim 10:19, 19 Jul 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following speculation from the background section:
A number of explanations are possible for this retcon. There could have been two different vessels with the same name commanded by Kor (just as James Kirk commanded two ships named Enterprise) or D5 might also be a 23rd century designation for a variant of the D7-class. Or, as the senility of Kor was the key focus of the DS9 episode's plot, he might have simply been confused with the class name of his old ship.
-- Renegade54 (talk) 01:44, July 8, 2015 (UTC)

Split off D5 class ship Edit

I propose to split off the info about the Battle of Caleb IV with a D5 class cruiser called Klothos to a separate page, mainly due to new info from Star Trek: Discovery. Kor specifically called that Klothos a D5 class cruiser and that its cloaking device was a new piece of technology, catching the UFP unprepared. This fits pretty nicely with how the war and the spread of Klingon cloaking technology is depicted in DIS, at a time when the D7 class as we know it didn't exist yet. There is no reason he can't have commanded two ships of different classes with the same name. Kennelly (talk) 12:17, October 22, 2018 (UTC)

There isn't, but there is also the fact that the man was losing his mind, themed throughout the episode, and our tolerance of such things (bullet point 6). --Alan (talk) 12:36, October 22, 2018 (UTC)
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