Talk: Kobayashi Maru scenario

Removed from article

Reason: see discussion below:

In 2371, Lieutenant Commander Tuvok developed his own variation on the Kobayashi Maru scenario on USS Voyager's holodeck as part of a training regimen for some of the Maquis crew members. In this test, Lieutenant Kenneth Dalby was in command of the bridge of the Voyager, with Chell at the helm, Terik at Operations and Hanley on a console behind the captain's chair.

In Tuvok's scenario, Voyager was at warp when it recieved a distress call from a Ferengi vessel. Dalby ordered Chell to alter course, aware that Starfleet regulations require them to render aid whenever possible. However, a Romulan Warbird decloaked. Dalby ordered the ship to open fire, even when a second Warbird decloaked. Moments later, Tuvok ended the holodeck program just as Voyager was destroyed. He criticized the Maquis officers, pointing out they should have retreated — that move having the best results at the lowest cost, even though it effectively meant abandoning hope of rescuing the Ferengi vessel. Dalby was furious at the idea of running away from a fight, and commented to Tuvok that the exercise proved that the Maquis officers didn't have what it took to be Starfleet officers. (VOY: "Learning Curve").

I think some of this info, though great, is a bit out of place here. Not all tests should be mentioned in this article. The first four paragraphs will do, though they could be rephrased here and there. The paragraph on Spock sacraficing himself is less relevant, but I can live with it. All the rest should be relocated to the appropriate articles. -- Redge 22:07, 23 Jul 2004 (CEST)

I think the info re: Voyager should remain though, just to show that a modern equilivent of the test still exists, using holodeck technology. Maybe a two-line job just saying it happened, as opposed to detailling it? -- MiChaos 22:46, 23 Jul 2004 (CEST)

One question: what is the canon link between Tuvok's test and the Maru test? Did Tuvok mention Kobayashi Maru? Because based on what I read here Tuvok's test had a winning possibility: backing of. If that is the case, then the test was not a no-win situation and has therefor nothng to do with the Kobayashi Maru Test. -- Redge 23:34, 23 Jul 2004 (CEST)

Tuvok commented that retreat should have been considered; we have no idea, and Tuvok never commented, if it would have actually succeeded in his scenario. But I understand your point - there is no canon link between the Maru test and this one. It seemed like a good idea at the time... -- MiChaos 23:43, 23 Jul 2004 (CEST).

Forum:Kobiyashi Maru no win situtation

August 7, 2006 Lt. Michio Kobayashi Japanese Imperial Navy, Dive Bomber pilot world war two. Served aboard the Japanese Carrier Hiryu. After the destruction of the Japanese carriers Akagi, Kaga and Soryu and their entire air groups, Lt Kobayashi was to lead an element of eighteen dive bombers and six fighters to attack an American Carrier force at Midway a numericaly larger enemy force! Attacking the USS Yorktown with this reduced force was in many eyes a No win situation known in Star Trek lore as "Kobayashi Maru" Lt Kobayashi dropped his bomb on the Yorktown though as one of the very few Dive Bombers in his command to reach the American fleet intact.

• Although this is interesting, this does not belong in Ten Forward. As stated by the following:

On Memory Alpha, Ten Forward is a page where the members may gather to discuss various issues concerning the policies and operation of the wiki. It is not a place for idle conversation or off-topic discussion that doesn't directly concern Memory Alpha.

Though this is an interesting point which could be made as a small background note in the Kobayashi Maru article. - Enzo Aquarius 23:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I have changed this from a Ten Forward forum to a Reference Desk forum. --From Andoria with Love 04:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Starfleet Academy

Should it be mentioned that the Kobayashi Maru scenario is present in the SNES/Genesis game Star Trek: Starfleet Academy?--Vercalos 08:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

it is?? i'll have to play through that now

Nog

How did Nog solve/win the test?

It is never stated, but presumably he did not "win" the scenario, as that is made out to essentially be impossible. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 17:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

well, if his method was "distinctly ferengi" he might have simply paid off the romulan starship captains, or possibly even paid them enough to get them to help rescue the damaged ship's crew, though impersonating a tal shiar officer might've worked Omnipresentgnome 17:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Am I missing something here? What "Romulan" starship captains? The Kobayashi Maru scenario doesn't contain any Romulans.TheRogueX (talk) 05:23, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Saavik's performance

Saavik's performance was predictably dismal; as Kirk observed, "She destroyed the simulator room and [the crew] with it."

Is this really fair? I might be remembering the movie incorrectly, but I don't remember any mistakes on her part, short of going into the Neutral Zone to begin with. Considering that the point of the Kobayashi Maru scenario is to present a no-win scenario and force the cadet to look death in the face, which apparently entails the simulated destruction of the ship whether they like it or not, can her performance really be counted as "dismal"? - Caswin 02:43, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced info?

In the Primary reality section of this article is this section:

In the 2250s, James T. Kirk became the first (and only known) cadet to ever beat the no-win scenario. After taking the test and failing twice, Kirk took the test a third time after surreptitiously reprogramming the computer to make it possible to win the scenario.

Kirk got a commendation for "original thinking", and later commented wistfully that his stunt "had the virtue of never having been tried." Kirk would later defend his "cheating" by arguing that he didn't believe in the no-win scenario. Ironically, Kirk also defended the test itself by suggesting "how we face death is at least as important as how we face life".

I'm fairly sure that never happened in the primary reality, only the alternate reality. I haven't checked the history page, so it may just be a vandal just moving stuff around, but can someone do a fact-check on this and let me know if it actually happened at all in the primary reality? -- Interrupt feed 19:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

See Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. — Morder 19:53, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I didn't know it actually happened, as I haven't actually seen Star Trek II. -- Interrupt feed 21:58, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Citation needed

I removed the following note, which has lacked a citation for nearly two years now:

• Screenwriter Jack B. Sowards named the scenario after the Kobayashi family who were his neighbors.

–Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 11:21, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Kobayashi Maru training in 21st century

Research centre at university has Kobayashi Maru training with realtime simulation at USS Starship Enterprise. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eugene.tee (talk • contribs).

What university? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 19:45, April 26, 2011 (UTC)

Removed bg speculation

Removed this speculative bit from the bg-section and put the canonical bits to the in-universe part of the article. We just don't know why Spock didn't take the test himself...

Spock stated that he had never taken the Kobayashi Maru test, suggesting the test may have been introduced in the period between Spock's Academy training and Kirk's. However, it is also possible that, as a science officer for much of his Starfleet career, Spock was not required to take the test. It is also possible that, as in the alternate reality, Spock had a role in designing the Kobayashi Maru test; he may have never taken it himself precisely because he was the program's designer. In his death scene at the conclusion of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Spock describes his sacrifice as his solution to the scenario.

--Pseudohuman 01:07, October 10, 2011 (UTC)

Paul Rice

Commander William T. Riker mentioned that his classmate Paul Rice had beaten a difficult Starfleet Academy test by disregarding three options and coming up with a 4th option which worked. (TNG: "The Arsenal of Freedom")

Is it actually stated that this test was the Kobayashi Maru? On the page for Paul Rice, it says it was his final test in Advanced Navigation. For advance navigation, this scenario does not seem to fit. If it is, then the section where it states that Kirk is the only one to win needs to be edited to something along the lines of "up until that point".

I feel this part should not be here. Sansd20 (talk) 19:57, 7 April 2021 (UTC)