Split
Not having seen the film yet, it seems to me that something happened to this guy to turn him into Krall. Since his Human history predates 2233, I suggest we have pages both for Balthazar M. Edison and Krall. - Archduk3 07:30, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, I went to see the film with the question, "Who is Krall?" in mind. Turns out I left with the same question; no idea how he turns into Krall, nor why his alien nature is shown to rapidly change between species when he puts his hands on two Human prisoners of his. --Defiant (talk) 07:34, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
- My thoughts - the alien technology that gave him life as well gave him the characteristics of whatever species that individual belonged to. We see him returning to a quasi-human form after "consuming" several Enterprise crew members. Edison, like so many others in fiction and history, changed his name for reasons known to himself. It is for some a break from the old person (Muhammed Ali who was once Cassius Clay, Jr.) or for others to seperate their private life from their public life. (Marilyn Monroe in public, Norma Jean Mortenson in private). They are treated as the same individual. For Edison, I think the name change was an instance of the former.--Memphis77 (talk) 08:02, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
- Okay, but what "technology"? Do you mean the Arbonath? --Defiant (talk) 09:04, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
- Not the Arbonath. There is a scene where Krall drains the life essence of two Enterprise crew members. It is not explained exactly how he does this, although it is stated he learned a method of extending life from what was left behind. This is the alien technology in my last post.--Memphis77 (talk) 13:20, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
I was thinking a split more along the prime/alternate reality line than a Kurn/Rodek like split. I'm not sure if the changes in the timeline are the reasons he's Krall or if that predates 2233. - Archduk3 13:44, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
- I disappointedly found the film very incomprehensible (I suspect this was may be a result of it being essentially a rush job in development). I'm hoping Memory Alpha might help gradually clear up some of the confusion. For now, I will say that, if Krall and Edison are the same person, I don't think we should have two different pages for them, especially since he is shown changing between his Human and alien appearances near the end of the film. --Defiant (talk) 13:54, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
Should we rename Krall to his human name and just bold the fact that he later went by Krall or do we keep the article as is? Jkirk8907 (talk) 20:55, July 22, 2016 (UTC)
I would like to throw a caveat in the discussion. Given Simon Peggs recent comments about the canon of the "Kelvin Timeline" http://simonpegg.net/2016/07/11/a-word-about-canon/ you are assuming that what happened to the Franklin in regard to the ship missing, also happened in the Prime Timeline. Neros incursion did not just impact the present, it also impacted the past of that universe from the big bang forward. It is possible that the past was radically altered as well. We saw that in the Next Generation episode "Yesterday's Enterprise". When that ship came forward in time it altered the past as well as the present. The Xindi and Romulan conflicts were perhaps radically different from the original Timeline.I think its something you should think about.--WarriorScholar3000 02:12, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
Krall and Edison are the same person. This is confirmed when Uhura did a voice analysis when watching the video logs of the Franklin. Based on real world precedents, the article should be titled Krall.--Memphis77 (talk) 02:17, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
You can't assume that Edison exists in the Prime Timeline. Who is to say that he was the Captain of the Franklin. It is obvious if you study the films closely, the alternate reality has also altered the past. I think it is a mistake to assume this Captain and this crew had Prime counterparts. You could argue that the past was altered by Neros incursion and changed everything including first contact with key species. --WarriorScholar3000 02:25, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
Quoting Simon Pegg:"Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. "
I think the editors need to reconsider some of the alternate universe entries based on this statement by Pegg who is qualified to speak on this. --WarrioScholar3000 02:28, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
I agree that it is increasingly hard to see the "Abramsverse" as the original timeline altered a bit, it seems wildly divergent way before 2233. The USS Kelvin bore no relation to ships that existed in the mid-23rd century in original continuity. Krall/Edison refers to fighting in the Xindi conflict which bears no relation to what we saw happen in Enterprise S3 where the conflict was averted without any major battles. (The suggestion that he served as a MACO aboard Enterprise seems to be stretching the point somewhat.) The Franklin is said to be the first ship that reached Warp 4 when Enterprise and other NX-class ships could do Warp 5 a decade earlier. (Again, there are explanations: The Franklin was an old ship, Warp 4 means something different in the 23rd century, Kirk and Scotty don't know their history very well. But it feels like we're stretching to form a coherency that isn't there in the movies.) Edison is said to have been made captain of the Franklin when the Federation was formed but the Franklin disappeared in 2161, the year the Federation was formed in the prime timeline. I get that it's Memory Alpha policy, but if there's now official doubt from Paramount then I think that needs to be taken into account. Skteosk (talk) 21:52, July 23, 2016 (UTC)
Krall's species
Is Krall's species named in the film? Along similar lines, are the others who look like them, on the planet, transformed members of his crew from the Franklin? --Defiant (talk) 13:54, July 22, 2016 (UTC)