last two bullets in 'background info' of poor quality Edit

(bullets regarding timekeeping on Cheron and the significance of the namesBele/Loki/Cheron)

I fixed the typos, but they are still klunky, unsupported, and vague. Suggest they be deleted/revised.

racism Edit

I notice nothing in the article about the message of this episode (how superficial racism is). Should something of that nature be included? It is derived directly from Spock's lack of understanding of "He's black on the right side." This was part of Roddenbury's vision. -- 01:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


The "Background Information" in the article states thart Frank Gorshin received an Emmy nomination for playing Bele. Yet, I've never been able to verify that, not from the IMDB, not from the Emmy website, and not even here. So, maybe the line should be removed?? - Adambomb1701 18:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it. I've been all over the Emmy's and haven't seen that. The Emmy db does go back to TOS, and it's not listed there. We can put it back if someone can cite. 9er 21:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Here are some sources stating that he was nominated for the role:, IMDb, Wikipedia, Yahoo! Movies, The Telegraph, USA Today, The Guardian, and Gorshin's official site. --From Andoria with Love 03:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Interesting. I just checked the Emmy database [1] and searched on Gorshin, 1962-2006. His Batman nom is listed there, but no Trek. Assuming the two noms are equivalent (guest actor in a drama, guest actor in a comedy, or whatever cats they had back then), it would be odd if a 1966 nom is there and a 1969 nom is not. It's not like you could say that maybe their lesser categories don't go back as far in the db. Recalling how we cited various sources, apparently incorrect, that all had Colm Meaney voicing a character on Family Guy, which he didn't, I'm leaning towards not including this until the Emmy people themselves verify it. All of these sources could simply be wrong-it's happened before. I will email someone at the Academy on Monday and see if they can confirm or deny. 9er 04:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... that is odd. It's possible that they don't have information on guest performance awards from that far back in their database. Come to think of it... was that category even in existence back then? At Wikipedia, the awards for Outstanding Guest Performers only go back to 1975. I'm more leaning towards that this is well-spread misinformation myself. I have e-mailed the webmaster of, but I'm not sure what they can tell me, so please, e-mail away. :) --From Andoria with Love 05:59, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Shran, did you hear back from the Emmy webmaster? 9er 20:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Not yet. Since it's only the webmaster of the site, s/he may not be able to answer the question... and may thus choose to simply ignore it. Then again, it's also possible s/he is checking on it. If you can e-mail someone who actually works with the Academy (or if you already have e-mailed them), that would be great, because I really wouldn't count on much help from the site's webmaster. --From Andoria with Love 02:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Stock footage Edit

I know this will come as a surprise to no-one, but this episode has some blatant reuses of old footage of the Enterprise in space. Half the time, the backs of the naceles have the old, flat, holey appearance. The other half they have that ball appearance. I just found it funny and wondered if it should be mentioned in the trivia section. 08:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Riddler Edit

I removed this from the Background section:

* Gorshin's costume in this episode is very similar to the one he wore as the Riddler in "Batman."

This is a real stretch. The costumes don't look anything alike. - Bridge 02:48, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Background Information Edit

It is noted that footage from "The Galileo Seven" was reused in LTBYLB, likely for budgetary reasons. I THINK (and this post is asking for confirmation) that this is the only TOS episode that takes place ENTIRELY on the Enterprise, with no planet scenes or scenes aboard other ships. This would be noteworthy, IMHO, and perhaps additional evidence of the tight budgets in effect. - Esjones 22:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

"Charlie X" also takes place entirely aboard the Enterprise as does "Elaan of Troyius." There may be others, but these came to mind quickly. Scott son of Pete 12:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I made a couple of quick changes to the background info portion. I deleted the line about Chekov possibly being out of the viewer's line of sight during the "Spock eavesdropping" scene. This is fan speculation to cover a gaffe and not fact. If the actor were on the set, he would have been included in the shot. The camera dollies all the way through the door, Chekov would have had to have been in a corner somewhere to not be seen.

Also, regarding the "zooming in and out" of the alert lights, I substituted the show "Laugh In" in place of "Batman." A small matter, sure, but Batman never used the zooming in and out technique seen here (despite many reference materials stating the same thing). It was, however, heavily used on Laugh In, which was a bigger hit than Batman by this time.

I added references to two more beauty shots. Scott son of Pete 12:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed this: "This is the only episode in which we see the transporter room from the perspective of someone beaming down." The same perspective is used in The Mark of Gideon, in the beginning when Kirk materializes into the empty ship. Hokstein 03:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

In Space, no one can go South Edit

In the background information section, there is the following bit.

"Oddly, Kirk says that Cheron is in the "Southernmost part of the galaxy". Technically, this is impossible, as "North" and "South" don't really exist in the vacuum of space. Possibly, this term was used to avoid using other, vaguer terms like "bottom"."

Since there is such a thing as galactic south, meaning the section of the galaxy lying below the galactic equator, in the direction of Sculptor, should this remain in the article?--Megs 18:58, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I have corrected an error on the information. Modern astronomy does use a system of galactic coordinates in which north and south in the galaxy are defined. Galactic coordinates are centered on the Earth and are specfied by galactic latitude and longitude. Latitude zero, or the galactic equator corresponds to the galactic disk. The galactic center defines longitude zero. Thus the hemispheres above and below the disk are designated as north and south. This coordinate system works as the Earth is almost exactly embedded in the disk midplane. Galactic coordinates are used heavily in many areas of observational astronomy. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).
Since this issue was raised as one that fan's have trouble with, the note serves as a corrective bit of information to those who think a mistake was made by the writers, when in fact they were OK. Removing it does not correct this error, and risks someone raising it anew. The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).
In any case, the corrective note is in the article.– Cleanse 00:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Transporter aspect? Edit

According to Background Information, this is the "only episode in which we see the transporter room from the perspective of someone beaming down." I just watched the episode online, and didn't see that. It shows both Bele and Lokai beaming down just the same as ever: watching them be dematerialized. Did I miss something? -Randy 11:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You don't get to see the beamdown process from their point of view. What they meant was that the camera is placed so that you can see the transporter room from the pad.--Megs 01:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Removal Edit

I removed most of the syndication cut item from the Background Information. Here's what I removed:

  • In at least one syndicated version of Star Trek epsiodes, parts of the story have been edited out of five episodes. In this version of LTBYLB during the self destruct sequence the parts of Spock and Scotty are edited out. (The other four episodes are "Catspaw" (The part with the 3 witches confronting Kirk and Spock are cut out(although the end credits list the actress!!) & "Mirror, Mirror" the part where Kirk finds out about the Tantalus field-yet in this version the part is kept in where Kirk informs opposite Spock of an "Invincible weapon." In "The Squire of Gothos"-the scene where Trelane shoots a phaser and dissolives the "Salt vampire" costume. In "The Ultimate Computer" the scene where the enginering officer is "zapped" by an plasma beam). Star Trek is not the only TV Series of syndicated editing: MASH had at least two episodes which were later synidcated with parts edited from orginal episodes.

The tone of this suggests that syndication cuts are unusual when in fact they're routine. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm pretty sure that every episode of TOS was cut for syndication, especially in later packages. Noting the cuts made per episode is a valid piece of information, per episode. But we don't need a list of all noted cuts from all episodes on an episode page. I won't even get into the MASH reference. --9er 03:21, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC)

The "Batman" reference needs to go back in. Its directly referenced in several publications, among them the Star Trek Compendium. Frank Gorshin himself also said in an interview that it was deliberate due to his role as the Riddler. -FC 14:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Which does nothing to alter the fact that Batman didn't do that with the camera. "Other publications" are wrong regardless of what Frank Gorshin said. And don't take his recollection as gospel. Many older actors tend to remember what they want to remember, which happened often with James Doohan, Shatner, Nichols and cast members of other shows. Batman has tilting camera shots, but never the zooming in and out technique. That was all Laugh-In. Putting the note back in won't make it any less incorrect. Scott son of Pete 20:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
While you may very well be correct, on this site we go by references and cannot change something in an article because we may personally believe that a reference is wrong. We need an established source (See: here). Since we have one for the "Batman" thing, that is what the article should read. Although, to be fair, a note could be added that this is disputed. I'm sure something can be worked out. -FC 20:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, without citable proof, the Laugh In claim is likely inappropriate here and I'll delete it. But, while people have "said" it's a Batman trait (and I know I'm going on about something minor), all a person has to do is watch the series to know they never do the zooming thing. I can't give references, since I didn't read it, I watched the series in its entirety within the last few months. So, all I can say is I'll reword it to support the claims to and from and let the reader/viewer make their own investigation. Thanks much! Scott son of Pete 18:06, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
You know something? Everything I put in there to clarify makes the entry about Batman, and this ain't a Batman Wiki. I removed my anal Batman correction and simply kept in the "alledgedly a homage to Batman" and let it go at that. That should be fine, but if you want to change it, I'll go with whatever you want. I lost focus for a minute. :-) Scott son of Pete 18:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
This can certainly be something we can continue to research. I imagine what happened is that Gorshin told the same incorrect story for so many years that he eventually began to believe it himself and thus it got picked up by reference book writers. What we need is a modern current Star Trek book written in the past few years that will correct the error and refute what the books from the 1970s were all saying which was the "Batman" connection. I for one hated the 1960s Batman series and avoided it whenever it was on TV so I'm not an expert here. -FC 22:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Really? It was such a funny show. :-) Anyway, thanks. It's always fun to blow a minor issue way out of proportion. If I learn anything I can put a reference to, I'll go back to it. Scott son of Pete 12:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

More removed Edit

  • There is a scene in this episode in which Lokai pleads his case to the Enterprise crew. In the only instance in the series other than "Charlie X" and "The Tholian Web", the door to a room on a functioning starship is not fully closed (in "Charlie X" it was the recreation room, in "The Tholian Web" it was the chapel). The door here is only open a few inches. This seems to have been done simply to allow Spock to eavesdrop on the conversation, although this doesn't have much bearing on the story.
  • ...Apparently any three officers of a certain rank and/or security clearance can activate the self destruct sequence. This makes sense in the event that one or more of the command crew have been killed in the crisis that has led to a decision to destroy the vessel.
  • The Enterprise travels from Ariannus to Cheron in about four minutes real time. This despite the fact that Cheron is supposed to be in a remote, uncharted quarter of space.
  • Cheron, coincidentally, is rather close to the name of Pluto's moon (spelled "Charon"). The companion of our solar system's dwarf planet was discovered in 1978. In Greek mythology, Charon was the ferryman who took the dead across the River Styx. Although Cheron is located in an uncharted section of space, Kirk recognizes the name. This lends credence to the supposition that this is where the Romulans suffered a humiliating defeat in the "Battle of Cheron," as mentioned in TNG: "The Defector".
  • Kirk says that Cheron is in the "southernmost part of the galaxy". While the "southern" reference caused a lot of scoffing among fan reviewers, this is actually a valid statement, as 20th century astronomers have defined a system of galactic coordinates in which this would make sense. In galactic coordinates, the disk of the galaxy defines the "equator," while sectors "above" or "below" the disk are designated as "north" or "south."
  • When Lokai is running through the corridor at the end of the episode toward the transporter room, he can be briefly seen holding a rope in his left hand as he follows the camera filming him down the corridor.
  • This script for this episode is noteworthy for increasing the amount of dialog normally allocated to the supporting characters. Nurse Christine Chapel is given only one (throwaway) line ("He's coming around, doctor"), but she's still included.
  • The Star Trek: Enterprise episode "Chosen Realm" bears similarities to this episode, with aliens descending to a planet to find that its inhabitants let their hate destroy themselves.

Remove similarities/nitpicks/speculation/realworld comparisons — Morder (talk) 07:08, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

I also removed the following as a nitpick:
  • In a continuity error during the recreation room scene, although both Walter Koenig and George Takei are heard speaking lines of (dubbed) dialog in this scene, Koenig is not in the room.
Cleanse ( talk | contribs ) 10:04, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I removed this long long political commentary, which went for months without being cited and I think it's really just historical debate and doesn't have much connection with the episode:
  • The first story outline was submitted one week after the release of the final report of the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders, known as the Kerner Commision after its chair, Illinois Governor Otto Kerner, Jr., which President Lyndon B. Johnson appointed in the wake of the rebellion in Detroit, Michigan, from July 23-27, 1967, the worst social uprising in U. S. history up to that point. Johnson directed the commission to determine the causes of such urban disorders, which had become annual spring and summer events since 1963, and make recommendations to prevent their recurrence. The central thesis of the report was: "Our nation is moving toward two societies, one black, one white – separate and unequal." Johnson, however, was mired in a military and political quagmire in Vietnam, which was becoming increasingly costly in blood and treasure and draining resources, attention and support from his ambitious Great Society social programs. Rejecting the commission's recommendation to pour greater financial resources into addressing the causes of racial injustice and inequality, Johnson, breaking protocol, refused to meet with the commissioners or allow them to present their report to him in person.
Ltarex (talk) 12:56, November 14, 2010 (CET)

Deleted from Background Edit

  • In a syndication cut which was only used by the Sci-Fi Channel, the self-destruct sequence is considerably trimmed where Kirk activates the entire destruct sequence by himself and then in the next scene he is giving the activation code for the countdown. In the normal syndication broadcast which appeared on network television, the entire destruct sequence can be heard.

Every episode is cut for syndication. If we indicate every instance of a deleted scene, episode articles would be pages long.

Mrtrekkiedude 04:14, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


There was a remark that "the chase goes on forever." No Concluding episode of Bele and Loki still chasing one another for thousands of more years?The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).