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Performers considered for VOY roles/archive

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Patty Duke RIP Edit

I can't edit this page due to a browser problem but can someone mention her recent death in her listing please. -- RayBell (talk) 08:18, April 9, 2016 (UTC)

Actresses considered for Seven of Nine's role Edit

Found this. [1] The preceding unsigned comment was added by LauraCC (talk • contribs).

Is there any other citable documentation that can confirm these? --LauraCC (talk) 21:17, August 15, 2016 (UTC)

Standalone pageEdit

I have taken the initiative of restarting her page. It appears that a shot of Bujold's hands remained in the final cut of Caretaker, just before Voyager was hit by the distortion. A comparison can be seen in this video: https://youtu.be/sbl3cGQ5vxI?t=185 In light of the fact that Bujold's hands are used in a clip that aired in the final cut, I think Bujold is a Trek performer in her own right, and therefor merits her own page. Lastly, I would also point out that we have a page for Trisha Burton who also appeared only as a hand-double for Janeway. --- Jaz 22:21, February 19, 2019 (UTC)

So original research from a youtube video is the citation for this? --Alan (talk) 22:38, February 19, 2019 (UTC)
I'd submit that, in this case, the evidence is inconclusive. Firstly, the creator of the YT video even admits himself it's "just a possibility" that these were Bujold's hands. Secondly, the Bujold material in the YT video comes from The First Captain: Bujold, which specifically refers to the footage as an amalgamation of what was shot with Bujold together with "a rough cut of 'Caretaker'." It's entirely possible that that "rough cut" included Mulgrew rather than Bujold, so it might be Mulgrew's hands in the close-ups. In fact, for all we know, the close-ups may have been shot with a separate hand performer. Actually, given the insert nature of these shots as well as the fact Bujold was notoriously difficult to work with, I personally would guess at the latter possibility, but even that's speculation. Why? Because all we can conclude about the identity of whose hands these are is that we don't know. --Defiant (talk) 22:59, February 27, 2019 (UTC)
I concur with Defiant in regard to the "hand" issue...However, and that being said, I also agree with Bujold – she being somewhat of a case apart – having her own stand-alone (production POV) page. Why? Returning her to the "Performers considered for a Star Trek role" article is not the right place for her either. She was not only considered, but also signed/contracted for the role, having actually already shot (and thus being paid for) some of her scenes after VOY had started production, as is properly documented elsewhere. IMHO the signed and being paid status are the operative requisites in this case, indicative of the "consideration" stage being over. That she was found wanting afterwards, is another cup of tea entirely as I see it. She is a bonafide part of official Star Trek production history after all. My two cents...--Sennim (talk) 15:07, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
She's hardly the first or last that those statements reflect. What of every actor who had a deleted scene, for example? They don't qualify, and they're contribution is much greater than hers, being just a flip of a coin decision away from being reinserted into future re-releases into canon-dom (look at the various Director Vuts of films or extended scenes added to TNG-R.) Bujold will forever be in a no-mans-land of ever possibly being inserted into VOY-R.--Alan (talk) 18:25, March 10, 2019 (UTC)
This article is worth keeping IMHO... however, it is interesting that Bujold is some years older than Mulgrew, which may not have worked in her favour in terms of action scenes and longevity of the series. -RayBell (talk) 21:49, September 10, 2019 (UTC)
Quasi-ageist rubbish; what matters is, if there's proof it was her hand, it stays; if it's in question tremulously keep it in with "Performers considered" very close on hand, as it were. I don't look at it in any other way.--Archer4real (talk) 09:03, September 11, 2019 (UTC)

<content snipped for lack of relevance>

Moving this discussion back to a more relevant course, perhaps we should move the info here to VOY performers whose scenes were cut? --Defiant (talk) 06:48, September 14, 2019 (UTC)
Keep The Article
It looks like I am the only person to recommend in favor of Genevieve Bujold's own article as well as giving Nicole Janeway an article.
However, I also think the Hand Double photo and text establishing Bujold as the hand double should be deleted from the article unless there is information proving that it is Bujold. I agree with whoever else posted that it is very unlikely it is Bujold. It is the same footage in both versions of the pilot, but the hand double could be anybody. Is there any information at all about the Paramount Production Procedures For Hand Doubles?
I also am providing feedback that Memory Alpha would be easier to read if more cast, crew, and characters would get their own separate articles instead of reading very long lists crammed into the same article. I doubt you agree, as I suggested the musicians hired to work on Star Trek should be included in the episode articles but nobody agreed.
The Bujold article has an alert that the information might be inaccurate. If there is no accurate information left in the article, perhaps her article should be merged.
Will the talk page, the discussion about this, remain?
All of these paragraphs are mine. I spaced them out hoping they will be easier for you to read.
In Correct (talk) 19:36, November 24, 2019 (UTC)
While I agree that MA would be better off with more pages than less, there is no evidence to support this article as a standalone. Also, while I suppose to an extent VOY performers whose scenes were cut, one could argue that such an individual could theoretically be reinserted into a future "director's cut-type scenario, whereas her appearances cannot, when in reality, she was one of the Performers considered for VOY roles, who didn't make the cut (hence, "considered"). --Alan (talk) 19:00, December 3, 2019 (UTC)
Except that she wasn’t just "considered", in the way that Karen Austin or Lindsay Wagner were; she was cast, and filmed. It was only after a day and a half of filming that she quit (or was fired, depending on which version of the story you prefer). That puts her in a unique position, and I think one that we could make an exception for. —Josiah Rowe (talk) 21:58, December 3, 2019 (UTC)
She was eliminated. Her character was scrubbed. She was considered and found not to be a good fit. Her scenes weren't simply deleted for content or time. There is no usable footage. Another David Rappaport for a different reason. --Alan (talk) 22:40, December 3, 2019 (UTC)
To my ear, "considered" implies "not chosen." Bujold was chosen, cast, and withdrew after filming had begun. Although the outcome is the same in terms of what made it to screen, it’s not the same as someone who was considered for a role but never cast.
To put it another way, consider the case of Walter Mosley. We do not know whether any of his contributions to the Star Trek: Discovery will make it to screen. But when I asked at Forum:Walter Mosley, Archduk3 said, "Anyone who has worked on a Star Trek production in a verifiable manner should have an article." Is he wrong? How is Bujold (or Rappaport, for that matter) any different from Mosley? —Josiah Rowe (talk) 01:21, December 4, 2019 (UTC)
No, he is not wrong, because ultimately she will still have an "article", it will just be under the collective title, "Performers considered for VOY roles." That is our current modus operandi with this type of stuff and it probably should have never been split off in the first place. That's really the point of this discussion. Once everything is back in order, then the status quo can be challenged. --Alan (talk) 15:00, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
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