Talk:Starfleet uniform (alternate)

Merge

Why is this considered a "real" uniform and yet the uniform first seen in TNG: "All Good Things..." isn't? All timelines after 2395 show that uniform at least until 2422, unless you are still on Voyager in the Delta Quadrant. - Archduk3 03:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Because all those timelines are explicitly reversed within the episode. We don't know for sure what a future uniform would look like when Benjamin Sisko didn't disappear in 2372/Deanna Troi never died in the 2370s/the Voyager returned in 2378. Heck, Voyager's early return might be the deciding factor in the uniform designs. The 29th century uniform, unlike the 2390s/2420s-style, is never identified as being in an alternate universe.--Tim Thomason 03:24, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I have this going on both pages and in Ten Forward, but the not one timeline has shown a different uniform for this time, even the one where the Star Trek: First Contact uniform was never used. (DS9: "The Visitor") - Archduk3 03:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll reply here as well but next time keep your conversation in one place. The futures of all of star trek has been reversed or repaired and thus changed. No future is certain except those happening in the "present" of star trek and therefore no uniform will ever be finalized until that future becomes the present in the show. Anytime you see the future those uniforms aren't real since they're part of a future that may or may not ever actually happen due to the events in the show. — Morder 03:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I see what you're saying now - sorry, for some reason I read it differently (in relation to your forum post as well). Hmm...I'll have to watch this episode again to see what Tim is saying though based on what I remember he does seem correct. — Morder 04:03, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I do agree with him as well, but since the 29th century uniforms is listed with the "real" uniforms, even though there is a clear difference between them the two times they are seen (VOY: "Future's End", "Future's End, Part II", "Relativity", suggesting that they are alt uniforms as well, and subject to being changed as the timeline is revealed. So this page should be merged with the alt uniforms page. - Archduk3 04:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

As 29th Century timeships are protected with temporal shields, wouldn't that suggest that their uniforms are "real", as their mission would be to restore the timeline to the way it was(which resulted in those uniforms)?--31dot 10:17, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, Daniels, Future Guy and the other players in the TCW seemed to be somewhat "shielded" from whatever damage the other player, respectively, did to their past - yet none of their timelines turned out to be Trek's main timeline, or did it?

In any case, from a purely practical standpoint - if some new chapter of Trek eventually gets written and attached to the end of its "prime timeline", some time after Star Trek Nemesis, it stands to reason that continuity with the uniform of a time-travelling guy from some VOY episode will be the least concern. We shouldn't give that uniform any greater weight than any other from "the possible future". -- Cid Highwind 12:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Shielded or not, this uniform is seen in only one episode, as the one seen in both Future's End episodes is clearly different (Since the 1st and 2nd seasons of TNG are not the one seen in the 3rd season onward), the slight color and collar differences have to make them different uniforms, and since they are suppose to be from the same time, on the same man, it seems that either the uniform was changed, or that some timeline changes have happened. Either way, one episode is not four, and that is how many support the "All Good Things..." uniform, even though they all "reset". The point about the ENT TCW is also valid, there is no way to be sure about their uniforms, seen at least once in the season 2 opener I think, so the 29th Century is also suspect. - Archduk3 18:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Well it's been awhile, but I still feel this page should be merged. - Archduk3:talk 16:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm anti-merge. None of the stuff in All Good Things..., the Visitor, or Endgame have been proven. That's why it drives me nuts when people act like Crusher definitely became Captain of the Pasteur. We have concrete proof that this uniform existed in the prime timeline, it should stay. IT IS GREEN 23:27, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

What concrete proof? This uniform is only seen in one episode, since the "Future's End" uniform is different from this one; and the events seen in this episode involve paradox after paradox, until the whole episode is one giant paradox, which didn't even happen except in two people's memories. For all we know, the entire crew of the Relativity is as much a paradox as the ship itself, see: USS Relativity dedication plaque. - Archduk3:talk 08:29, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Redux

Let's try this again, since the last time the discussion got bogged down in temporal mechanics. We have every real world reason to know these uniforms are a footnote if a Star Trek show is ever set in the 29th century, we know that between the two appearances of this style they did change, and we know that the USS Relativity, along with all of Starfleet, was wiped out because Daniels made a mistake in "Shockwave", suggesting that in universe these uniforms aren't set in stone either, nor is the future. Without getting bogged down with Star Trek temporal mechanics again, these uniforms shouldn't be treated as any more "real" or "permanent" than all the other future uniform information we have, and should be located in the same place. - Archduk3 11:52, August 3, 2011 (UTC)

Support - I don't see these as any different to the AGT uniforms.–Cleanse ^{( talk | contribs )} 05:04, August 4, 2011 (UTC)