Talk: Unnamed humanoids (24th century)

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Removed sections[]

I have removed the following sections. This article is titled unidentified humanoids, and the description also says that it is about humanoids. The following sections were about non-humanoids.

Aquatic lifeforms[]

A table with an evolutionary diagram of various alien aquatic lifeforms was displayed in the classrooms aboard the USS Enterprise-D and on Deep Space 9. Some of the lifeforms were very fish-like while others looked distinctively mammalian and Saurian. (TNG: "Imaginary Friend")

The table was first seen in the nursery in "The Child". It later appeared in the schoolroom aboard the Enterprise-D in "The Offspring", "Reunion", "Imaginary Friend", "Rascals", and "Masks". It also appeared in the biolab in "New Ground" and in the classroom aboard Deep Space 9 in "Cardassians". Some of the aliens show a striking similarity to aquatic dinosaurs or the famous Loch Ness monster.

Footprint and cell sample aliens[]

Footprints and corresponding cell samples of several species were stored in the library computer of the USS Enterprise-D. Samples of at least 5 alien species were compared to the footprints and cell sample of the Tarchanne prior to its discovery. None of the samples was similar to the Tarchannen III lifeform however. (TNG: "Identity Crisis")

Footprint and cell samples

While these are unnamed aliens, they are simply not humanoids (heck, in the latter case, we are talking about a few cells). These do belong somewhere on MA. Do we have an "Unnamed Non-Humanoid Aliens"? --OuroborosCobra ^talk 20:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

As we have the pages humanoid and non-humanoid, I think I'll just go ahead and create Unnamed non-humanoids (24th century) and move the aliens there. There is bound to be more strange creatures that can be added there. The same for the remaining two centuries, of course. --Jörg 20:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Groups[]

When there are groups of unknown species, such as the Markonian outpost visitors or the Mikhal Bar visitors, maybe we should move them to a page about their location? This is sometimes the practice - Nimbus III inhabitants, Motherlode inhabitants. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.1.139.

I haven't seen these episodes but I agree that when you have a practice on a wiki it should be kept constant Yarnek 22:21, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Humanoids from "Scientific Method"[]

The page is missing the unnamed humanoid aliens from the Voyager episode "Scientific Method". They were cloaked and experimenting on the crew. (24.168.238.45 08:45, March 4, 2010 (UTC))

That's because they're called the Srivani. :) - Archduk 3 08:52, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Abducting Aliens[]

Whenever an unnamed species has a named individual, we give them a separate article titled "Individual's species". So I think we should call this race "Mitena Haro's species" and give them a separate page. Or maybe "Picard Impostor's species", since the Picard impostor was the first one shown on screen. The name "Abducting aliens" is not specific enough, since they aren't the only species in TNG to abduct someone. NetSpiker (talk) 12:48, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

Mitena Haro is probably an assumed name, which is relevant because recently another species that had several individials, but with fake names, was merged: Talk:Unnamed non-humanoids (24th century)#Merge (from Talk: Unnamed imagination aliens) -- Capricorn (talk) 13:29, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

That example doesn't apply to this situation because there was a real Buck Bokai, but there is no real Mitena Haro, as far as we know. There is also no other Picard impostor. NetSpiker (talk) 14:02, March 11, 2015 (UTC)

I see no value in creating "made up species names". Tom (talk) 19:19, March 23, 2016 (UTC)

Pink Benzite-like aliens[]

Alien pink-skinned workers — Pink-skinned aliens

Are we sure that those are Benzites in the Delta Quadrant? The coloring is entirely wrong and the mouth tendrils are missing. I think it's more likely that they recycled the makeup and changed the color to make it seem like a new race. Logan 5 03:50, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree. Aside from their being pink, their noses are not as big as other Benzites. Were they named as Benzites in "Workforce"?--31dot 17:02, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

There is no reference that these aliens are Benzites. The call sheets for "Workforce" are listing the actors as "Full Heads" regarding their makeup. Tom 17:44, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Then I'm inclined to move them off this page, since they appear different enough, but I will wait for additional comment.--31dot 18:10, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I'd say I agree, they're different enough to be a new species, not Benzites (just similar, but then again there are so many species similar to Humans)! JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 11:34, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I would guess that they're probably Imhotep, a Delta Quadrant species with modified Benzite make-up. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 11:47, September 21, 2016 (UTC)

I moved them here. They are neither, and should be treated as less. --Alan del Beccio (talk) 23:12, October 25, 2017 (UTC)

Harod IV miners[]

Er I believe that someone reverted my edit of the "Harod IV" miners. Including the Species 3 miner. SketchFan98 (talk) 12:10, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

Yes. Look at the history, it reads:

dbl. listed images, adding more and more images of the same persons doesn't help anyone, there is only a limited number of actors in this episode!

-- sulfur (talk) 12:25, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

I know but the fifth formerly pictured actor was there for awhile! SketchFan98 (talk) 12:40, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

No, one is missing, as there are 7 actors credited total: 2 of species 1, 2 of species 2, 1 unknown (all on that page) and 2 Reegrunions listed elsewhere. ALso, on the episode page, there looks to be 8 miners, with the Plix character being listed alone under unknown actor, when in fact he is one of the surname only actors (so he is kind of double listed in that sense).--Alan (talk) 12:45, January 10, 2019 (UTC)

Newly-Released Policy?[]

Is there a policy on adding items to this list from recent episodes (such as Picard)? I ask because there's been at least three unknown humanoids seen in Picard as of episode 5 and I'd like to add them, but I'm not sure how to go about doing so correctly. TrekkieCub314 (talk) 14:47, February 20, 2020 (UTC)

No. But there are some factors that might better determine if they belong on this page or not. Who and where are they? --Alan (talk) 16:23, February 20, 2020 (UTC)

Tyken's Rift being[]

Removed quote[]

A little confused why the quote I added keeps getting removed. It is:

"See the eyes...in the dark! One moon...circles!" -Tyken's Rift being describing hydrogen (2367)

as this is the only line the creature ever speaks I feel it would be a good opening quote for the article. -FC 01:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It was only removed once, it has been properly formatted now, not removed. --OuroborosCobra ^talk 01:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

As OC said, it's not removed, merely moved to "Memorable Quotes". What Bp and Alan are getting at is that the opening quote should attempt to somehow "sum up" or describe the subject of the article.

Besides, you already have the quote on hydrogen, so it's not really necessary to have it on the top of two pages.– Cleanse 01:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

That all makes sense; thanks for clearly it up. Pretty creepy quote too; Troi wasn't the only one whose had a bad dream about this, I'm sure! -FC 02:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

New Title Needed[]

"Tyken's Rift being" seems inaccurate to me, because that title--and, in fact, the entire article as written--seems to suggest that this was a space-dwelling organism, an individual, that became caught in the rift. But in the actual episode, the Enterprise crew hypothesize that "another ship" is trapped on the other side of the rift. They work to establish communication with "the other ship." Picard states that "these beings" are calling out to Troi. All of this supports a crewed vessel, not a being. The naming is complicated by the existence of a list entry, Unnamed Alpha and Beta Quadrant starships (24th century)#Tyken's Rift being's vessel. I would suggest that the vessel, rather than its crew, should be regarded as the primary entity. That section would then be renamed as "Tyken's Rift vessel," and then this article could be renamed "Tyken's Rift vessel aliens." Some of the content might need to be exchanged between this article and the section. This alien should be indexed in one of the articles listing unnamed aliens, but that is also complicated, because those lists are divided into humanoid, nonhumanoid, and noncorporeal aliens; but these aliens are completely unseen, apart from an indistinct dream image. Do folks agree that we should make changes along these lines? --DavidK93 (talk) 07:39, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. At the very least, the article should be rewritten to refer to "Tyken's Rift beings" instead of "Tyken's Rift being". --NetSpiker (talk) 07:52, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I think "being" vs. "beings" could stem from, do we know the alien ship had more than one entity aboard? The Enterprise crew does theorize "aliens", "beings," etc. (plural) but it's not clear. Adding to the unclear-ness, the STE only refers to the aliens as "the aliens" and "unknown vessel". As DavidK93 mentioned, the show/script refers to them as "beings", "aliens", "the other ship", and the dream-individual as "sighing voice." Still hunting for reference material that may provide a better name. Chronology uses "unknown/alien intelligence." TNGC uses "the other ship." - AJHalliwell (talk) 13:30, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, Troi did state "beings" and "they", and she was the one in contact with "them", so I'd say that circumstantial enough to indicate there are more than one. Otherwise, as much as I hate to suggest, this may otherwise simply be a candidate for the Unnamed humanoids (24th century) page (as implied by the form shown), as that is already essentially the treatment their ship was given, as noted above. –Gvsualan (talk) 14:25, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not as familiar with guidelines here as I am with Wikipedia, but would it be acceptable to keep this article (under an improved name), and then add them to the humanoids list (I agree, that is basically what we see.) but the entry there would just direct the reader here? I think there are list articles where some entries have their entire content in the list, while others provide a link to a main article. I think the content here, or an updated version of it, stands well as an article. --DavidK93 (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I suggest the name of the vessel be changed to Tyken's Rift Vessel but the article here be left as Tyken's Rift Being. Deanna could have misinterpreted parts of the communication and Andrus went catatonic while trying to understand it. Deanna and Data were making educated guesses about who sent the message. The ship seems to be a very small scout class vessel manned by only The Messenger. Even his ship has more than one crew member, perhaps he qualifies to have his own separate article since The Messenger has a role in the episode. His species could be included in the Unknown Humanoids article. In Correct (talk) 07:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Based on what evidence do you assume that there was only one being aboard the ship and that everybody in the episode was wrong? And why do you think it was a small scout ship? And when was the being that Troi communicated with ever called "The Messenger"? --NetSpiker (talk) 08:10, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

It is my mistake. The script supports the existence of a crew. However, First Contact was made from The Messenger, so he should need his own article. And no I am not proposing that his name be officially declared The Messenger. In Correct (talk) 10:18, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I do agree that, in addition to the vessel and the telepathic alien race whose members crew it, there is an individual with whom Troi has direct contact. I would support the creation of an article or list entry for that unnamed individual. It would be brief, as there is even less information available about that individual than there is about the vessel and its crew, sparse as that already is. --DavidK93 (talk) 23:06, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

There seemed to be consensus that a change like this sould be made, so I went ahead and moved and rewrote the article to reflect this alien race as the topic. Hopefully, any other needed changes can be tweaked from there; I think the photo captions and background info need to be updated, and we could probably use a better top quote, something about the aliens rather than a quote from the individual alien. Also, I'm not sure if this Talk page was supposed to move with it, or if I've done something wrong. --DavidK93 (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

There is not yet consensus -- If this is an unnamed group, then it doesn't belong on its own page. This was brought up previously. This page should likely be merged to another page. That suggestion has not been addressed.

Plus, when you move pages... moving a page isn't sufficient. Incoming links MUST be updated to suit.

PS please keep your indents consistent as per MA:TALK -- Sulfur (talk) 10:37, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Sulfur; as you may have guessed, I was not familiar with Memory Alpha's indentation protocol, and was trying to use the formatting preferred at Wikipedia, where indentation is based on what the new post responds directly to. It was brought up about merging into "Unnamed humanoids," and I didn't see a response to the specific question I asked. [1] Is it, in fact, not permitted for an "unnamed" entity to have its own article? [2] I.e., such a topic may only be included as part of a list? If so, hopefully at least others agree I've improved the content, for inclusion in whatever article it must ultimately be a part of. [3] Does a non-canonical name suffice? [4] Or was the article on the supposed individual "Tyken's Rift being" always invalid, but simply went unnoticed? [5] Could you please elaborate on what I did wrong with incoming links? [6] Also, any idea why my posts are double-spaced? In the source editor, it looks exactly like the single-spaced posts. --DavidK93 (talk) 05:15, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

In no particular order: (1) In short, and with regards to the essence of this specific case, no, (3) unless the being was native to, or at least originated in a known place, was given a unique/qualified on-screen designation, or was given a definitive production/script/background name. Which is (hopefully) spelled out as such in MA:CANON. (4) In this case, the Tyken's Rift is an anomaly in an unknown place that this otherwise random species/being were/was stuck in. So yes, it probably shouldn't have been given this name in the first place, (2) as there are a plethora of mildly prominent species that appeared in episodes that have, unfortunately, been given the same treatment of "the list", such as the lovely "cauliflower heads" from "Allegiance", or the likeable "mushroom heads" from "Silent Enemy".

As for the technical stuff, (5) when you move a page you leave a bunch of orphan links behind, as in those pages linked directly to a page name that no longer existed, and nothing linked to the page you moved it to, which is simply not cool. (6) As for that question, I shall direct you to comment here. –Gvsualan (talk) 13:41, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

The closest thing the being has to a non-canon name is "Sighing Voice", which is what it was called in the script. Probably not enough to warrant having its own article, but on the other hand, we have an article for Humanoid Figure. --NetSpiker (talk) 14:00, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not sure why there is a need to constantly add chaos to the situation with anomalies when the solution is pretty clear. I even cut back my reply above figuring the 3rd answer covered it pretty well. So let's stick to one character subject at a time, eh? Also, "Sighing Voice" is really more comparable to saying "alien with big ears"...which is quite literally how most species are listed on the "unnamed humanoids" pages. –Gvsualan (talk) 14:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

"Sighing voice" is clearly the best section title to describe this character on the unnamed humanoids page then. :) -- Sulfur (talk) 14:40, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Gvsualan. Were you saying that your answers to [1] and [3] are derived from the guideline, MA:CANON, or only that one hopes to find unique, definitive names in in-universe (i.e., "canonical") sources? I have been looking through various policy pages, and I cannot find anything that addresses the naming of articles or sections about topics that lack such names, or the acceptability of standalone articles on such topics. I understand that you are saying, essentially, that a topic without a canonical name cannot have an article, and should only be added to list articles. But where is that spelled out? Ultimately, the list entry would have a title, so that same title could be used as an article title. (I'm not saying this is allowed or even a good approach; I'm just saying it's compatible with the format of MA.) Honestly, the most logical naming convention is one that would probably be rejected for breaking POV: just use the episode title, which would be very helpful in naming many unnamed aliens that appear in a single episode and are very prominent in it. (i.e., "Night Terrors alien," "Allegience alien," "Silent Enemy alien," etc.) I do agree with your reasoning against identifying these aliens via the Tyken's Rift. In reviewing the "unnamed humanoids" article, it looks like unnamed species whose only known individuals are also unnamed, do not get separate articles. (i.e., if a character is named, the unnamed species is referenced as that character's species, and unnamed characters of named species are listed as unnamed members of the species; but unnamed characters of unnamed species are lumped together in a single section on the species and character(s).) So there would be no independent section anywhere on "Sighing Voice." I'll check out the formatting discussion. --DavidK93 (talk) 09:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The idea of the link was to indicate the guidelines on using the correct sources in deriving our naming conventions idea of being simple and precise, etc etc. And yes, episode titles does break pov...but is also how MA/de catalogues stuff, but they've always done things their own way. With exception of this article, that has simply remained overlooked, as well as perhaps a couple others, the format for the rest of this site has been finetuned to the point that should be self-referential, in terms of how things are named, which you've seemed to have gotten. As for the unnamed people/species distinction...on those unnamed pages in question...they are a bit of a two sided coin, and to avoid any unnecessary redundancies among the unnamed we've added Category:Unnamed² species alongside Category:Unnamed individuals, and then it would typically be written: "this is the general description and history of a species" and below that is "the general story behind each character". It's simpler that way. Regardless, this page will be merged sometime soon. –Gvsualan (talk) 14:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately, I still don't think I understand the expectations for titling and content of articles or sections about unnamed topics. But if it comes up again, I'll try to seek out appropriate resources. --DavidK93 (talk) 08:45, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

List of referenced but unseen species?[]

Is there a counterpart to these lists that contains species only mentioned in dialogue? Like the Gallamites, Grizzelas, etc...? That seems like it would be a helpful companion to these Unnamed lists. {{Omid}} links to too many other things for its "What Links Here" page to be useful in such a regard. --TimPendragon (talk) 19:19, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Here:

That should about cover it. However, that is more of a RW statistical list of things already catalogued, rather than a list cataloging unidentified things, where we are "pretending" these are kinda sorta their names. --Gvsualan (talk)