Talk: Volis' species

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Volis' species article. For general discussion, go to Memory Alpha's Discussions or Discord. Click here to start a new discussion on this talk page. Consider enabling EasyTalk to improve the usability of talk pages.

Purple Federation members[]

I don't know were the background information stating that the blue guys in TUC were meant to be the same species as the female purple ambassador from "Journey to Babel" comes from, but could it be that this background bit doesn't refer to the blue guys, but to another alien present during the Khitomer Conference scene?

I'll upload two screenshots, one clear image from the TUC DVD Special features and one actual screenshot from the movie (albeit very small). Both show the same guy (compare the robes and collar he's wearing) and he does have the same purple complexion as the ambassador from "Journey to Babel" (or for that matter the bearded councilor from Star Trek IV). So, could this be another member of the purple Federation member species? --Jörg 18:20, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

When TUC was released, I remember a newspaper article written by an extra. He was hoping to play a Klingon, but the costume people convinced him that playing one of the "Purple Federation members" was cooler. IIRC, he had bluish skin and a wok-shaped hat. He gave the backstage name for the species, but, unfortunately, I no longer have the article and do not know where it was published--StAkAr Karnak 21:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC).

Purple-skinned humanoids[]

Now this species have started turning up in LD a number of them have been listed on this page - despite being from the 23rd rather than the 24th Century. Is it now worth creating a new page for this species and moving this content there? Sojourner47 (talk) 20:46, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

Until there is a better name, not really. –Gvsualan (talk) 01:25, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Maybe at least create a page like Unnamed humanoids (multiple centuries) for species that do appear in various time periods? JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 02:33, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Please, no more unnamed character lists. We already have way too many. --NetSpiker (talk) 07:04, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

Ye of little faith.

And also, they need to stop making unnamed characters if you want us to stop making unnamed character pages. –Gvsualan (talk) 16:40, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

That takes for granted that the current organizational scheme for unnamed entities is the only way in which Memory Alpha content could ever be organized. In actuality, it's entirely possible that someone would figure out a better way. I hope someone does, because I do agree that the site's lists of unnamed entities are not the site's best content. --DavidK93 (talk) 23:00, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I've always had the opinion that many of the unnamed character pages need to be merged together, especially the 9 different lists for Deep Space 9 Starfleet personnel/Bajoran Militia personnel/residents. The resulting page would be very long, but that's what Ctrl+F is for. And there's no reason that unnamed humanoids need to be separated by century.

But getting back on topic, is there a reason the purple humanoids have been removed from Unnamed humanoids (23rd century), but List of Volis' species hasn't been created yet? The two actions should've been done at the same time. --NetSpiker (talk) 02:20, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Nope. There's just a bunch more involved in how things work and how much can be done in a day than most airchair quarterbacks here seem to understand.--Gvsualan (talk) 02:33, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Gvsualan, this isn't the first time I've seen you mention the difficulties in moving and reorganizing pages, as well as the inadequacy of others' knowledge thereof. Is there a page in Memory Alpha that outlines the proper procedures for these not-uncommon kinds of changes? I don't know whether or not it matters to you if you are helpful to others who want to improve the project, but I think you are often unhelpful in your interactions with contributors who know less about Memory Alpha than you do. For example, rather than identify others' lack of knowledge, you could consider providing the missing knowledge. --DavidK93 (talk) 02:45, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Confused[]

How do we know that all these listed individuals are of the same species? The bright purple live-action woman looks nothing like the allegedly purple (I don't see it) live-action man, and neither look much like the purple cartoon man. Volis does not look purple to me at all in the images uploaded to Memory Alpha, and I have never taken notice of her onscreen in LD. I know that species design can and does change, and especially could look very different between live-action and cartoons. So it's entirely possible that these individuals are all of the same species. But I see no basis for assuming that or stating outright that it is so. Is there a source of any kind that establishes any two of these individuals as members of the same species? --DavidK93 (talk) 23:07, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, Volis and the STVI guy have only a slight purple tint to their skin. They could be the same species as the bright purple Babel conference attendee (Orions come in bright green and pale green), but then again, they might not be. Lumping them all together as Volis' species is speculative at best. --NetSpiker (talk) 08:34, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

It's no more or less speculative than assuming that pointy-eared Starfleet officers are Vulcans by default and not Romulans or Mintakans or some other unknown species. Or that characters who look like Humans are Humans and not Iotans or Ekosians. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 13:15, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

...Or any less speculative that all green people sharing the same features are Orions? How is it not easier to say all purple people are the same species, versus being your own enemy and "inventing" six different slightly different shaded purple species placed in six hard to find random unnamed pages because of perceived differences in their color and explain how that is any less speculative...much less any easier? Chist, this literally solves one of our biggest naming problems you all complain about, and you still manage to find a reason to bitch about it.... –Gvsualan (talk) 13:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I have no problem with the slightly-purple aliens being considered the same species as the bright purple aliens. I wasn't "bitching", I was just pointing out that we could've gone either way. I understand that a certain amount of speculation is necessary for Memory Alpha and it would've been just as speculative to say they were different species. --NetSpiker (talk) 13:49, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Gvsualan, It definitely is easier. That's self-evident. That doesn't mean it is correct. I reject the premise that making stuff up is a solution to any problem. The awkward alternative you suggested is certainly not the only alternative, but again sheds light on the fact the the wiki's system of hard to find unnamed pages is not good. But my understanding is that the wiki does not have individual pages or list entries for unnamed species that contain only unnamed individuals. So the "Volis' species" article would remain, and the other individuals would all stay where they are, as individuals on lists. The "list of Volis' species" article would go away. In any event, the multiple different "invented" purple species are every bit as much "invented" as this singular species is. That's why I asked if anyone has sourced information that we could add to the article, rather than premising it entirely on speculation. For the record, I buy that the Babel Conference woman, Yorktown child, and STIV Federation councilor are of the same species as each other; in addition to the rich purple skin tone, there is a unifying degree of ornamentation to their hairstyles. I also find it readily believable that the two Cerritos crew members other than Volis are the same species as each other (and the starbase visitor), but I would like to see a source before agreeing that they are the same species as the preceding three. They lack the ornamental hair, but I concede that the differences in character design are similar to those between live-action and animated Orions. Volis herself, I would like a source that even identifies her as the same species as the two other Cerritos crew, because she doesn't look purple to me, and apparently she has never been clearly depicted onscreen; she looks low-res at the bar, and the display screen is color-distorted. I see no basis at all for asserting without a source that the Khitomer Conference attendee is of this species; to me, he does not resemble any of the other aliens mentioned here. And JagoAndLitefoot, your comments only make sense if we assume that Star Trek viewers have no understanding of character design. In practice, if multiple species have visual similarities but only one is established in canon beyond a single appearance, it is reasonable to assume that an unnamed individual is a member of the established species; and if later proved wrong, we correct it. In the specific case of Vulcans, only they among the species you mentioned are Federation members, so naturally it's a reasonable assumption that the Federation officer is Vulcan. That's even true in-universe; canonically, two Starfleet officers with Romulan ancestry have passed as Vulcan! And in the specific case of the purple aliens, I'm not being speculative by suggesting that someone might assume something different or contest the claims here; I'm affirming that I, personally, did not perceive information in the works as aired to make an assumption that these individuals are all of the same species, and that I do, in fact, doubt the accuracy of the claim. --DavidK93 (talk) 19:35, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

I've just seen this much better image of Volis, and would now be entirely in agreement with deeming the other two purple Cerritos crew as members of her same species. I would still like to see a source for them being the same species as the purple live-action characters as I consider the claim to be reasonable but unproven, and I still think the Khitomer Conference attendee should not be considered a member of the species unless a source is produced, because to me the claim is baseless. --DavidK93 (talk) 02:14, 2 October 2021 (UTC)