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AlbinoEdit

Would it be appropriate or premature to add a note connecting Voq to the Albino, the only other albino Klingon we've ever seen? Certainly, it has not been confirmed that Voq is the one who killed the sons of Kor, Kang and Koloth, but it does not seem likely to be a coincidence either, especially given the tension between T'Kuvma and Kol, who has been identified off-screen as a member of the House of Kor. Could (or should) we add a note, or perhaps just a "see also" to the Albino? —Josiah Rowe (talk) 03:17, September 27, 2017 (UTC)

The Albino was never really confirmed to be a Klingon, though, aside from non-canon novels (although he might be one based on his looks). There might be a connection, though, given that T'Kuvma actually does say that Voq was cast out from the House of Kor, just like The Albino was in the novel. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 03:26, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
Pretty sure it's not said that Voq was cast out by Kor's house. Please be careful to check facts before making edits. -- Capricorn (talk) 12:32, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
OK, maybe not stated outright but at least suggested (kinda, since it hasn't been stated on screen yet that Kol is from the House of Kor, but it's been said in the show's publicity). T'Kuvma says, looking at Voq: "My house is open to all. Including those discarded by you, Kol." Not something to be added to the article yet, though. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 13:11, September 27, 2017 (UTC)
Another possible interpretation is that T'Kuvma said "Including those discarded by you, Kol" because Kol had just taken a particularly harsh stance on the fact that Voq was being accepted by T'Kuvma. Like I said, it's very important to not be influenced by what we think is happening, but only by what we know. -- Capricorn (talk) 08:22, September 30, 2017 (UTC)

Albino?Edit

With Ash describing his condition as a having a translucent white skin in the last episode, I'm wondering, was he ever explicitly described as an albino, and if not, is it correct to put that label on him? All I remember is Battle of the Binary Star talking about how Klingons considered the color of his skin nature's mistake. -- Capricorn (talk) 13:08, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

He wasn't, but he is an albino by any real-world definition and we have had other albinos in the canon and Voq absolutely fits under that description. Just like, say, a person who is blonde doesn't need to be stated to be blonde for us to determine they're blonde. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 13:15, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

You should look up the actual real world definition of albino, it isn't just a general word for any abnormal individual with white skin, it's one very specific condition among several similar ones. Heck, his eyes are not consistent with albinism as we know it, but could be with Leucism. -- Capricorn (talk) 13:35, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

It's not canon, but still at least a production-side clue: Shazad Latif calls Voq an albino. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 13:56, February 12, 2018 (UTC)
For real world purposes I think you may be correct, Capricorn, in that there may be specific differences. However, for our purposes I think the terminology "albino" will suffice for the article, especially if Shazad Latif refers to him as such as well. It would be beneficial to hear from a writer or script source about it though, just to confirm. --| TrekFan Open a channel 15:22, February 12, 2018 (UTC)

Merge Edit

So... do we merge Voq and Tyler now? Or wait until they actually say the name "Voq"? The name was not spoken but the prayer was recited obviously in Voq's voice. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 15:11, January 8, 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, we should wait. --Facorread (talk) 15:52, January 8, 2018 (UTC)
With the last episode explaining that Ash and Voq are somehow both alive but having been fused into a single individual with a dominant personality chosen by L'rel, how should we proceed? Create a new article for "AshVoq", with two separate articles for both Ash and Voq before the fusion?... fuse the three articles together?... add the story of "AshVoq" alternatively to Ash or Voq depending on who is in control at the moment? what a mess XD Maxattac (talk) 18:18, February 5, 2018 (UTC)
Please nobody ever say the name "AshVoq" again unless it shows up in an actual episode. :) -- sulfur (talk) 18:40, February 5, 2018 (UTC)

Unmerge? Edit

I'm just wondering if perhaps we've dealt with this in the wrong way ... It seems in the arc of episodes clarifying AshVoq, that they actually combined two people into one, rather than graft Tyler's memories and body parts on to Voq. We're suppose to believe that AshVoq is equally both Tyler and Voq, not just Voq disguised as Tyler.

In this way, it seems that the closest precedent is Tuvix. Same result, just through surgery rather than a transporter malfunction. And with Tuvix, we have a new article, rather than a continuation from either Tuvok or Neelix. Perhaps, following that example, we should actually have free examples, Ash Tyler for pre-surgery Tyler, Voq for pre-surgery Voq, and Ash Tyler (Klingon) for AshVoq.

There's no real clear answer here, and so it's worth discussing, but the essence of what I'm proposing is that we deal with this the same way we deal with Tuvix? (Then again, Tuvix is a combined personality, while AshVoq is two distinct personality, albeit ones that easily slip between the two - but you can see moments in the finale when AshVoq is Tyler and AshVoq is Voq)... --Ima Wiz Iway amway Imagineway Izardway. 19:43, February 18, 2018 (UTC)

Re-merge Ash Tyler and Voq together? Edit

I'd like to propose that we put these two back together. The character that is played by Shazad Latif is clearly Voq. That's the body and soul he was born with. The only counterargument is "he self-identifies as being Ash Tyler", which, in the real world, would be valid. However, this is Memory Alpha, and we seem to prefer to do things the other way. Look at the article for Worf's brother, for example. Kurn currently self-identifies as being Rodek (well, in canon. I'm aware that there's some apocryphal works where he regains his memories), but the main article about him is "Kurn", because that's who his body and soul is. What makes Voq any different? --2606:6000:FFC0:35:758A:3DED:4B1B:F7E6 03:52, April 20, 2018 (UTC)

He's not, which is why Rodek is an article, not a redirect. These are separate articles exactly because this is how MA treats these. - Archduk3 04:18, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
This is probably more comparable to Lyndsay Ballard/Jhet'leya example. Of course this also means we need to BS an "Unnamed Klingon" entry for the Klingon who portrayed Arne Darvin. --Alan (talk) 11:33, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
We don't know if Arne Darvin was a "real" Human the Klingons captured or just a fake identity. DS9 seems to imply that it's just a name, since he changed it again after Kirk blew his cover. Then again, how "real" was T'Pel before Selok? - Archduk3 15:28, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
Unless I'm missing something in the "translation", he wasn't a "real" Human:
  • Kirk: They don't like you, Mister Darvin. I wonder why. Bones?
  • MCCOY: Heartbeat is all wrong. His body temperature is. Jim, this man is a Klingon.
So...I guess the only difference between Darvin and Human-Voq is the DNA meddling or organ rearrangement/manipulation or whatever? I've watched zero of DIS, so I'm somewhat at a loss in defining the distinctions here. --Alan (talk) 15:35, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
We don't need an "unnamed Klingon" entry because a Klingon wasn't "killed" when his personality was merged with a Human named Arne Darvin. In that case, it seems like a Klingon just started calling himself Arne Darvin, or had some reversible cosmetic surgery and then pretended to be Human. The difference here is that there was a "real" Human named Ash Tyler. We consider the Human Ash Tyler and the Klingon Voq to both be dead, while there is a Klingon/Human hybrid Ash Tyler, since he can't go back to being either just Voq or just Tyler.
The anon is arguing since the body mostly started out as Voq, it's still Voq, while MA puts more stock in the personalities involved, which is why Rodek and Kurn are considered to be separate Klingons, even though we don't know if there was a Rodek before Kurn assumed the identity, we just "know" that Kurn is gone and now there is only Rodek. - Archduk3 16:09, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
Ok, I think I got it. The Darvin thing aside, it seems that so as long as Voq/Ash is a third person then he should be a new person, and it's not an example that mirrors Ballard/Jhet'leya (who died, was regenerated as a new species with new identity, but still somehow retained her memories or her first life, but not the biology of it.) --Alan (talk) 16:40, April 20, 2018 (UTC)
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